Customer Support Discussion with Cyn Linden

  1. Cenji Neutra

    [17:01] hello there.

  2. Jessica Elytis

    [17:01] Never use them in chat to move along text. Use the mouse for that, but that’s me *chcukles*

  3. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:02] boo

  4. Shirley Marquez

    [17:02] trying to scare us with that ghostly white skin, SignpostMarv?

  5. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:02] MUHAHAHAA

    [17:02] I have scarier things in my inventory

  6. Stormy Wilde

    [17:03] lol

  7. Cyn Linden

    [17:03] ok! let me just see if we have everyone and we will get started, one second…

  8. Jessica Elytis

    [17:03] lol, Sign

  9. Cyn Linden

    [17:03] whoa

  10. Stormy Wilde

    [17:03] those arent creepy

  11. Rox Arten

    [17:03] lol

  12. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:04] I’ve got a pole dancing podium and a snowman avie that’s pretty scary 😛

  13. Stormy Wilde

    [17:05] does the snowman pole dance?

  14. Second Life

    [17:05] Multi Gadget v1.49.3 by Timeless Prototype

  15. Shirley Marquez

    [17:05] I don’t think it would be a good idea for a snowman to do hot dances 🙂

  16. Second Life

    [17:05] Delerium Hannibal bows to Cyn

  17. Stormy Wilde

    [17:05] lol

  18. Marvelous Podium

    [17:05] Sit Target optimised for:

    [17:05] SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:05] next optimisation window in 10 seconds

  19. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:06] ao on

  20. Marvelous Podium

    [17:06] Your sit target should be optimised.

  21. Rox Arten

    [17:06] lol

  22. Stormy Wilde

    [17:06] lmao

  23. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:06] rofl

  24. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:06] just some light entertainment while we wait for people to arrive 🙂

  25. Jessica Elytis

    [17:06] kk, the ppl I hang with are not the only nutz in SL *Grins*

  26. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:06] looks a bit heavy to me

  27. Shirley Marquez

    [17:06] are we waiting for more people, Cyn?

  28. Cyn Linden

    [17:06] Just two

    [17:06] i am trying to contact them atm

  29. Stormy Wilde

    [17:06] they might run away when they see the pole dancing snowman

  30. Dan Doyle

    [17:07] hehe

  31. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:07] lol

  32. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:07] bow-chikka-bow-wow

  33. Jessica Elytis

    [17:07] If they the type to ask to come to this meeting, they not the type to run easy *snickers*

  34. Dan Doyle

    [17:07] I like the snow man

  35. Cyn Linden

    [17:07] you know, just when you think you have seen everything in SL….

  36. Jessica Elytis

    [17:07] lol

  37. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:07] well this is a Mature sim, so I can make it look much worse

  38. Stormy Wilde

    [17:07] Cyn there is always going to be something you run across that will make you say that

  39. Rox Arten

    [17:07] lol never… that is what makes it great 🙂

  40. Dan Doyle

    [17:07] lol

  41. Shirley Marquez

    [17:07] melt it off… melt it all off

  42. Cyn Linden

    [17:07] OK! you guys all set? or is the floor show better than me yakking 😀

  43. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:07] I was gunna say, this is mild compared to some of the stuff out there

  44. Marvelous Podium

    [17:08] Sit Target optimised for:

    [17:08] SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:08] next optimisation window in 10 seconds

  45. Shirley Marquez

    [17:08] best to get the meeting going, I think

  46. Rox Arten

    [17:08] whenever your ready 🙂

  47. Dan Doyle

    [17:08] hehe

  48. Cyn Linden

    [17:08] ok here we go.

  49. Dan Doyle

    [17:08] go ahead

  50. Second Life

    [17:08] Multi Gadget v1.49.3 by Timeless Prototype

  51. Cyn Linden

    [17:08] so first off, thank you all for being willing to spend some time with us and share your conerns and ideas about customer support

  52. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:09] Is it okay if I post this discussion on my blog btw ?

  53. Dan Doyle

    [17:09] yes me too

  54. Jessica Elytis

    [17:09] 3rd taht

  55. Cyn Linden

    [17:09] i have been working closely with Robin the past few months to figure out what we need to do to make this work with our enormous growth

  56. Shirley Marquez

    [17:09] you have my consent to post anything I say

  57. Second Life

    [17:09] SLOpenID HUD Extras Manager is checking to see if any extras are enabled yet.

  58. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:09] same

  59. Stormy Wilde

    [17:09] same

  60. Jessica Elytis

    [17:09] Agreed

  61. Rox Arten

    [17:09] me too 🙂

  62. Cyn Linden

    [17:10] As for posting, we will post this or parts of it eventually, to post chat from in-world you need to get everyone’s permission first

    [17:10] ok

  63. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:10] anyone not give permission ?

  64. Cyn Linden

    [17:10] me!

  65. Cenji Neutra

    [17:10] got mine.

  66. Cyn Linden

    [17:10] jsut kidding

  67. Dan Doyle

    [17:10] ok with me

  68. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:10] lol

  69. Dan Doyle

    [17:10] lol

  70. Stormy Wilde

    [17:10] lol

  71. Cyn Linden

    [17:10] ok, so let me say a couple of things first and then we will get rolling with your concerns and comments

    [17:11] first off, one of the key components of suport going forward will be a tiered support system. your level of support will likely be tied to the status of your account (paid or unpaid)

  72. Cenji Neutra

    [17:12] just two tiers?

  73. Cyn Linden

    [17:12] i think it is apparent that we have to make this basic first step

    [17:12] this does NOT mean there will be no support for unpaid members, just that it will be tiered.

  74. Jessica Elytis

    [17:12] I ahve a comment on that. The Basic (or unpaid) Accounts are usually the ones that need the help the most.

  75. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:12] (isn’t it tiered already with the concierge system ? )

  76. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:12] the original idea added a consierge support tier in there if I remember right

  77. Cyn Linden

    [17:13] secondly, support is no thte same as abuse, so we won’t be discussing abuse issues here today, only tech support and billing, other in-world issues of that kind

    [17:14] yes, concierge the beginning of a tiered system, but below that level there are a lot of people that we are trying to support in the same way, regardless of their status… and honestly, I don’t think we can do that.

    [17:14] it won’t scale

  78. Second Life

    [17:14] SLOpenID HUD Extras Manager is checking to see if any extras are enabled yet.

  79. Cyn Linden

    [17:14] so wiht that in mind, let’s talk about what your ideas are. nothign is really set in stone at all, that is why we are getting your feedback

  80. Shirley Marquez

    [17:15] I liked the ideas that were in the blog about separating volunteer help and Linden help

    [17:15] that way the volunteers won’t waste time fielding requests they can’t help with anyway… and the Lindens will have more time for things they can do

  81. Cyn Linden

    [17:15] yes, that is really necessary. Volunteers are wonderful, and a cornerstone for us, but there are somethings they shoudlnt’ have to be accoutnabel for answering

  82. Rox Arten

    [17:16] Personally I agree with a tiered system as long as basic accounts get support also. WIth so many new basic accounts being added so fast those of us with paying accounts that need help are getting little or no service

  83. Cyn Linden

    [17:16] Yes Rox, I agree with that

  84. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:16] I’m wondering if this is why Linden Lab have been slow/not accepting new live helpers

  85. Cyn Linden

    [17:16] and they will get support, just not what a paid person would get

  86. Rox Arten

    [17:16] <~has a 3 week old unresolved billing issue and had no luck getting a response of any kind

  87. Stormy Wilde

    [17:16] I think the tiered service is a good idea, plus it will urge some people to move onto paid accounts.

  88. Cenji Neutra

    [17:16] What is the approx. ration of paid/unpaid accounts?

  89. Cyn Linden

    [17:16] No, actually we have just been overwhelmed in the volunteer area and needed to refocus that project

  90. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:17] well, the live help system is broken. it gets so hectic in there that I can’t even keep my head on straight when there are grid problems

  91. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:17] <~ also is in the same situation as Rox

    [17:17] What would free accounts not be getting

  92. Shirley Marquez

    [17:17] Zee Linden recently posted that there are 36,000 premium accounts

  93. Cyn Linden

    [17:17] i am not positive about active vs non active for paid and unpiad, but for active it is about 60/40 I think

  94. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:18] thats low compared to active free accounts

  95. Shirley Marquez

    [17:18] and that 90,000 people bought currency on LindeX

  96. Jessica Elytis

    [17:18] With @300,000 uniguw accounts I thought?

  97. Cyn Linden

    [17:18] don’t quote me

  98. Stormy Wilde

    [17:18] That does not seem like very many to me when the number of people with accounts is taken into consideration

  99. Dan Doyle

    [17:18] I m ok with a tiered system but is it realy going to be getting beter the level of service right now is not good at all for paid members no matter how much we are spending

  100. Cyn Linden

    [17:18] YEs, but you have to look at how many of them are consistently active

  101. Stormy Wilde

    [17:19] What time frame is considered consistently active?

  102. Cyn Linden

    [17:19] Free accounts would likely have access to the Knowledge base, which is goign to be migrated to a MUCH more sophisticated system, and email suypport

    [17:19] 60 days I believe, Stormy

  103. Jessica Elytis

    [17:19] Knowledge Base: Ppl do not like going to websites and the search function there is clumbsy. It needs catagorized better if it is to work.

  104. Stormy Wilde

    [17:19] ok

  105. Second Life

    [17:19] SLOpenID HUD Extras Manager is checking to see if any extras are enabled yet.

  106. Cyn Linden

    [17:19] Yes, Jessica, the new software is far better than what we have now

  107. Jessica Elytis

    [17:19] The google-style searchign there is poor

  108. Cenji Neutra

    [17:19] The bug reporting system is currently used as a channel for ‘support/problem’ type requests. As a result I’m sure it is very overloaded.

  109. Cyn Linden

    [17:19] it has better searchability and troubleshooting

  110. Shirley Marquez

    [17:19] if you’re going to limit them to email support, response time will need to improve — I’ve seen complaints on the blog and forums about non-response to messages

  111. Jessica Elytis

    [17:20] The F1 Help we have in-world is far better to find relevatnt information

  112. Cyn Linden

    [17:20] Yes, bu greports are not functioning as they should be right now

  113. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:20] Will free accounts be second-class citizens when it comes to response times ?

  114. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:20] to give an observation, including the two lindens, it seems there’s really only about a max of 5-10 people working live help at any one given time. and any new live helpers get burned out from this. endless cycle there

  115. Cenji Neutra

    [17:20] I’d like to see the teirs system (or some rating system) applied to priorities bug report triaeging too.

  116. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:20] e.g. will premium accounts get preference over people who can’t or won’t pay for a premium account

  117. Cyn Linden

    [17:20] Not for email. By controlling how people get access to support our response times will increase

  118. Rox Arten

    [17:20] Bug reports are not easy to categorize or even give a do this and you get this result

  119. Cyn Linden

    [17:21] Yes, the bug reposting needs an overhaul as well

    [17:21] *reporting

  120. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:21] Switch to Bugzilla! 😛

  121. Cenji Neutra

    [17:21] Yes, the problem is that even bug reports from technical people with quality reports probably get lost in a sea of reports that bascially come down to database load problems.

  122. Cyn Linden

    [17:21] YDeleriujm: Yes, we agree.

  123. Cenji Neutra

    [17:22] As a result, there can be very serious exploits and script problems that effect everyone, but the Lindens completely miss them.

  124. Shirley Marquez

    [17:22] there is a special category of bug report for exploits

  125. Cyn Linden

    [17:22] Yes, exactly. ANd that wil be addresed, but outside the context of support likely… however if we can provide better understnading of what is support and what not that will help. we are doing a brilliant job of that currently

    [17:22] oopsie

    [17:22] we are NOT

  126. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:22] lol

  127. Rox Arten

    [17:22] Preminum accounts are those investing highly in SL, I pay a lot in tier as does my fiance (not nearly as much as some do though) but they need to know that thier concerns will be dealt with not ignored in order to continue to pay that money

  128. Second Life

    [17:22] Cyn Linden blushes

  129. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:22] honestly, teaching people how to play the game is support, but it’s not a live help issue. currently it has become one though

  130. Cyn Linden

    [17:23] Rox: Yes, agreed

  131. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:23] coughnotagamecough

  132. Cenji Neutra

    [17:23] So, I agree that bug reports may not be ‘support’ exactly – but many times Lindens have adviced people to file bug reports for support type problems.

  133. Stormy Wilde

    [17:23] I think an option for the emailing support would be to have a section that say, they were emailing about graphics problems, have them select graphics from a dropdown menu and have some quick tips they could try come up in a sidebar, they could possibly find the fix in that sidebar without having to email at all

  134. Cyn Linden

    [17:23] Yes, and re-education for us is a part of this as well

  135. Jessica Elytis

    [17:23] Use the Inventories of people to place in instructions and announcements. Thre is a Library there. So easy to place in an Announcement Folder to let people know things.

  136. Shirley Marquez

    [17:23] if people are asking Live Help how to use SL, perhaps other systems are falling short… orientation, Help Island, Mentors

  137. Jessica Elytis

    [17:23] Teh Blog was for this, but really, how may of the actual users even read the blog?

  138. Cyn Linden

    [17:24] I think what has happened is, we were this cozy little community tooling along and blam! we got broadsided. So now we are recovering for that and responding to new needs and getting ourselves to relearn a bit of how thigns should go

  139. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:24] a good deal are forced to. live help relies religiously on it, referring comments about current dealings to the blog

  140. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:24] If you read Tateru’s last New World Numbers column, you get an idea of the state of the Mentors

  141. Rox Arten

    [17:24] There are a lot of people joining due to the recent media of being able to make money here. Those of us who do take that opportunity seriously are willing to invest as of right now I have stopped upping tier although I had planned to continue as I had recently at least until I can get what issues i have resolved

  142. Second Life

    [17:24] SLOpenID HUD Extras Manager is checking to see if any extras are enabled yet.

  143. Cyn Linden

    [17:24] Yes. SO VOlunteers has been moved to Pathfinder, who is really revamping the whole thing

  144. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:25] http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2006/11/new_world_numbe.html

  145. Cyn Linden

    [17:25] Live Help was an unfortunate misnomer I think

  146. Rox Arten

    [17:25] I am a fairly new mentor I know i got NO training and the big influs starte about 3 days after i started

    [17:25] spend the first week as a mentor overwhelmed

  147. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:25] try live help. lol

    [17:25] no training as well

  148. Cyn Linden

    [17:25] yes

  149. Rox Arten

    [17:25] I would if I had been accepted

  150. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:25] Tateru used to do classes for new Mentors, but she quit the volunteer groups and I don’t think anyone took over

  151. Cyn Linden

    [17:26] and that is not what we want to have happen

  152. Rox Arten

    [17:26] I am not complaining I love helping others that is why I volunteer

  153. Jessica Elytis

    [17:26] I never joined Live Help or MEntor, but I spend time in Welcome areas and helping newbies. I can easily see the overwelming factor.

  154. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:26] if I hadn’t have been here 2 years and know the ropes….

  155. Shirley Marquez

    [17:26] Live Help has to be the most thankless of the volunteer positions — people are likely already confused and angry before they even talk to you

  156. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:26] heh yeah

  157. Cyn Linden

    [17:26] Yes, Live Help has been quite overwhelming I know

  158. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:26] takes alot of patience, you get yelled at alot

  159. Shirley Marquez

    [17:26] we need more support and training for those volunteers — and simply more of them so the load isn’t so huge

  160. Cyn Linden

    [17:26] Yes, and that really isnt what Live Help was designed for

  161. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:27] Increasing the volume doesn’t always work

  162. Cyn Linden

    [17:27] Yep. Path has quite a few things lined up there – training, reorganizing, structure

  163. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:27] the load is the big thing, especially when something bad is going on, like the copybot scare

  164. Stormy Wilde

    [17:27] Live help was a great idea at first but now it is like the triage center for every little support problem people find

  165. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:27] there really is no way to scale for something like that

  166. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:27] Hmm

  167. Cenji Neutra

    [17:27] People also run to live-help when they have missing niventory, or object from land missing and that sort of thing for which live help, well, can’t.

  168. Rox Arten

    [17:27] there are still copybot "security" things all over spamming ughhh

  169. Stormy Wilde

    [17:27] there is, it just takes alot of careful planning

  170. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:28] I have a slightly geeky suggestion that would probably be rather difficult to implement

  171. Dan Doyle

    [17:28] Well If there was more comunication from Lindens I think that would also take some load off of live help

  172. Cyn Linden

    [17:28] Well no, there will always be overwhelming things like that we can’ t control, but we can learn how to reposnd to them better I Think

  173. Jessica Elytis

    [17:28] I would like to see "Live Help" split into catagories

  174. Cyn Linden

    [17:28] I love geeky, go!

  175. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:28] You know when you ring up a customer service line for a company, their CSRs redirect you to other departments without making you hang up and redial

  176. Cyn Linden

    [17:28] yep

  177. Stormy Wilde

    [17:28] Cyn, im not sure if you can answer this but on average, how many Lindens are available during a "shift" in world to help out on the grid?

  178. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:29] would it be technically feasable for Linden Lab to redirect a live help session to a "deaprtmental" group chat ?

  179. Cyn Linden

    [17:29] Depends on the time, Stormy. I do know we are aggressively recruiting though

  180. Second Life

    [17:29] SLOpenID HUD Extras Manager is checking to see if any extras are enabled yet.

  181. Rox Arten

    [17:29] Need more in world lindens definately doing liason work ..

  182. Dan Doyle

    [17:30] I agree with that for sure

    [17:30] hire hire hire lol

  183. Stormy Wilde

    [17:30] I know often when I am in Live Help there are only a couple on, for a weekend when you get 17k+ in world, it has to be overwhelming for them. Which probably does not help the customer service issue, they get over worked and brain fried so to speak

  184. Cyn Linden

    [17:30] There are a lot of options for "help request"… i think the most important one is to have it work as it should, as a place for volunteers to offer time. and that could include the kind of triaging you are talking about.

  185. Jessica Elytis

    [17:30] Has LL concidered an in-world office? Basically a sim where people get in line to get thier help? Save getting spammed on the IMs and all liek Live HElp does now?

  186. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:30] LL do have an in-world office

  187. Rox Arten

    [17:30] problem is that most of the posted jobs ( i have been checking) require moving or are highly technical and my web desgin background isnt going to get me in the door with a programming job

  188. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:30] I think they have two

  189. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:30] I think the biggest things that needs to happen is just releasing more information. Gridwide messages from the lindens about current happenings are a start, but fall short. An active window stating current running problems in game would help take alot of the load off

  190. Cenji Neutra

    [17:31] in-world, office, that is a great idea.

  191. Jessica Elytis

    [17:31] I never see anyone at tose offices

  192. Shirley Marquez

    [17:31] even some of the ones you have don’t seem to get in-world much any more… like poor Torley, so busy dealing with the forums and blog

  193. Cyn Linden

    [17:31] ONce the new support software is implemented from the viewer, it will triage requests for paid support staff much the way you are suggesting

  194. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:31] much in the way who is suggesting, lots of ideas got thrown about there 😛

  195. Jessica Elytis

    [17:32] Well, I’d like to see a first come first served lineup. As I see it, Support is handling everyone at once

  196. Cyn Linden

    [17:32] Yes Jessica, we are.. that needs to change

  197. Stormy Wilde

    [17:32] Will there be a way for volunteers to select area’s they feel they are more educated in then others so they get more help requests that they can answer without having to sort through all of the ones they cant?

  198. Cenji Neutra

    [17:32] One of the problems with quality assurance from the technical perspective, is that no Lindens actually use SL in the way that many residence do. They bascially don’t ‘live’ here and don’t understand the problems of running a business *in* SL (slightly OT)

  199. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:32] you could put in one of those automated bots you talk to for problems (sarcasm)

  200. Cyn Linden

    [17:32] Stormy: Yes, i think that is the best way to go

  201. Cenji Neutra

    [17:32] 🙂

  202. Dan Doyle

    [17:32] Yes Can you have diff levels of Volunteers

  203. Shirley Marquez

    [17:33] Cenji… I don’t think that’s entirely true, but they probably lead their other lives as non-Linden avatars

  204. Dan Doyle

    [17:33] I”d love to help but there are eosme areas I know nothing about

  205. Cyn Linden

    [17:33] CEnjji: Yes, I agree with that as well, that is why I am so often soliciting resident feedback, so that perspective is there

  206. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:33] I don’t really think you need different levels of volunteers

  207. Jessica Elytis

    [17:33] And is thre a way to "force" new accounts to read the instructions and such to learn the world? Such as passing a "test" to get the heck to the real SL? Teaching them at first would save a lot of grief

  208. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:33] I’m assuming you’re referring to scripting volunteers, builders, texturers, tech support volunteers

  209. Cyn Linden

    [17:33] I think people will have different area of interest as volunteers and we can accomodate that

  210. Stormy Wilde

    [17:33] Also I see a ton of questions in live help about being new and not knowing where to go next. I think giving people a folder when they sign up, of places to go, landmarks, items like that, will help out greatly

  211. Cenji Neutra

    [17:33] I think it is, because LL has always avoided large scale content creation. As a result, they don’t know what problems content creators face (on larger scales)

  212. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:34] SL profiles have the data available to say whether you are skilled in texturing, building, modelling, scripting etc

  213. Cyn Linden

    [17:34] Stormy: Yes, a big component of volunteers will be in new used experience I think -get ’em young!

  214. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:34] if Linden Lab extended this, and added better search facilities,

  215. Jessica Elytis

    [17:34] The problem is that new accoutns need force fed

  216. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:34] then people could search the people tab for people in the Live Help group who are skilled in building

  217. Jessica Elytis

    [17:34] Al the info is there, but most are too lazy to go get it

  218. Stormy Wilde

    [17:35] Or they dont know where to get it

  219. Jessica Elytis

    [17:35] That too

  220. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:35] and then they would be given a list of people who would be able to help them with building issues

  221. Shirley Marquez

    [17:35] partly that’s what Orientation and Help Island are for — but some people just head straight for the big world

  222. Jessica Elytis

    [17:35] Though the F1 Help has gotten MUCH better

  223. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:35] the same for terraforming issues, and parcel management….

  224. Stormy Wilde

    [17:35] or they crash, get logged off, log back in, in a mainland sim.

  225. Rox Arten

    [17:35] too many blow by Help Island because they "want to see the world"

  226. Dan Doyle

    [17:35] speaking about myself >>>>>>> I didn’t / don’t always know where to get info

  227. Cyn Linden

    [17:35] the KB will get much better as well

  228. Cenji Neutra

    [17:35] I can understand that – I think I was impatient to leave OrientIsland ASAP:)

  229. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:35] Linden Lab recently added the languages field

  230. Jessica Elytis

    [17:35] I’d like to see them "Tested" before they can enter SL proper.

  231. Rox Arten

    [17:36] lol not me I only left thanks to a crash after a week

  232. Cyn Linden

    [17:36] SUre, and I think Public Help Island can be levereaged more in those cases

  233. Jessica Elytis

    [17:36] Nothing great, just a wehre do you find this and that, or what do you do if this happens

  234. Cyn Linden

    [17:36] Ha, Jessica! LIke a driver’s test?

  235. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:36] and one of the common requests that go over the SL Mentors group is that "Resident X needs a language Y speaking Mentor"

  236. Jessica Elytis

    [17:36] Yes, Cyn

  237. Rox Arten

    [17:36] i like that idea

  238. Shirley Marquez

    [17:36] I don’t think that would quite work, Jessica… some people come into SL because they have friends here, and they get private mentoring as soon as they link up

    [17:36] but their friends can’t come into Orientation

  239. Stormy Wilde

    [17:36] Even for those that rush through the orientation island, i still think something in the inventory that has information for new people will be a good idea, this way they can look at it anytime and not have to wonder how to get back to where they were

  240. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:36] If the language field was searchable, then you wouldn’t need to have mentors finding them mentors so often

  241. Rox Arten

    [17:36] im afraid too many are running around naked or shooting and claim they didn’t know

  242. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:37] an active tutorial that they can use at any time would be nice too, but likewise these are things residents can make

  243. Jessica Elytis

    [17:37] I’m not talking final exams, Shirley. Something a person could do in 15 minutes or less

  244. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:37] the newbies would be able to find someone who speaks their language themselves

  245. Cyn Linden

    [17:37] Interesting, Signpost

  246. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:37] we’re talking linden labs requirement to us, not our requirement to our community. I believe teaching new players is outside the scope a bit of supporting a software

  247. Rox Arten

    [17:37] griefing has been horrible in the private sandbox a freind of mine owns to the point i no longer go and build with her

  248. Shirley Marquez

    [17:37] how many languages is Orientation available in now?

  249. Jessica Elytis

    [17:37] And if they have freinds in-world, that friend could tell them all they need to know to "pass" the test

  250. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:37] 1

    [17:37] english

  251. Shirley Marquez

    [17:38] is that true, Cyn? Still only English?

  252. Jessica Elytis

    [17:38] There’s a GErman one I believe, is tehre not?

  253. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:38] although there is a German sim and Korea, but the German sim is the only one with an Orientation Island in it

    [17:38] but last I checked it wasn’t translated yet

  254. Rox Arten

    [17:38] i have some german notecards

  255. Cyn Linden

    [17:38] We are still working on internaional orientation

  256. Qu Qi

    [17:38] just starting? or almost done?

  257. Cyn Linden

    [17:38] but German for sure

    [17:38] yes

  258. Jessica Elytis

    [17:38] YadNi has most things in other languages in his Junkyard. Or did. A whole wall of translated instructions.

  259. Cyn Linden

    [17:39] um, we have about 25 minutes left Qu

  260. Rox Arten

    [17:39] need portugese …

    [17:39] 🙂

  261. Qu Qi

    [17:39] thx.

  262. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:39] At the moment, if a newbie wants a specific category of help, and they know not to use Live Help for it

    [17:39] then they join the Scripters of SL group

    [17:39] or the Texturers, or Builders etc

  263. Rox Arten

    [17:39] a group owned land that i recently bought all speak only protugese and they have my land listed on thier charter as thier home" still

  264. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:39] I guess my question is, what is a requirement of linden labs and what is a requirement of us as a community, from linden labs point of view?

  265. Rox Arten

    [17:39] none of them understand that they can’t be getting naked in my hsop

  266. Robin Linden

    [17:39] hi everyone — sorry I’m late

  267. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:40] but there isn’t really a good way to cross reference members with groups

  268. Stormy Wilde

    [17:40] hi Robin

  269. Rox Arten

    [17:40] Hello Robin

  270. Cenji Neutra

    [17:40] hi

  271. Shirley Marquez

    [17:40] hello, Robin

  272. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:40] hi robin

  273. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:40] or languages

    [17:40] or skills

  274. Dan Doyle

    [17:40] hi robin

  275. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:40] a Resident should be able to put in the following query:

    [17:41] "A member of the Scripters of SL group who speaks spanish who is skilled in scripting"

  276. Shirley Marquez

    [17:41] the international community is getting past the tech-oriented early adopters now – I’m seeing a lot more people whose English is limited or non-existent

  277. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:41] since if you’re a member of the scripters of SL group and you’re not skileld in scripting, you’ll be someone who’s needing help, not offering it

  278. Qu Qi

    [17:41] Signpost: that would be great.

  279. Stormy Wilde

    [17:41] that would have to be a really specific database

  280. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:41] not specific

  281. Qu Qi

    [17:41] to allow searching by languages spoken, etc.

  282. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:41] the data is already there

  283. Shirley Marquez

    [17:41] so we need to address that — in support, help, and orientation

  284. Rox Arten

    [17:42] yeah that is a highly labor intesive database to set up

  285. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:42] there is a language field, a skills field and group data

  286. Rox Arten

    [17:42] but it would pay off in the end

  287. Jessica Elytis

    [17:42] Orientation will be the easiest. The HElp database will take the msot time

  288. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:42] being able to search a player database could be a website function

    [17:42] a "find a friend" function so to speak, but a whole lot more

    [17:43] put in your interests, whatnot, and search by it as well

  289. Qu Qi

    [17:43] yes, if you get the web profiles up then google can handle searches. and with the web browser texture map you could use it in world eventually.

  290. Shirley Marquez

    [17:43] but do we want it on the web site, or in-world? How comfortable are people with running a browser at the same time as SL?

  291. Stormy Wilde

    [17:43] There would have to be a way for people to make it so their preferences are’nt made public or they can show and hide them as they choose

  292. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:43] the browser will be in-world eventually

  293. Rox Arten

    [17:43] i run both and more all the time but I know some can not

  294. Jessica Elytis

    [17:44] I prefer in-wrold only myself.

  295. Cenji Neutra

    [17:44] not very (as someone who runs a web-site for configuring in-world devices)

  296. Qu Qi

    [17:44] in would would be better, but on web would be an easier first step.

  297. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:44] There is an option to not have your profile published on the web

  298. Qu Qi

    [17:44] easier to prototype on too.

  299. Rox Arten

    [17:44] yes and if i remember correctly default is to not be checked so you would have to check it to have it pblished

  300. Stormy Wilde

    [17:45] right but that would work only if it was a web based search

  301. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:45] There is no reason that the search tools should not be replicated in world or out of world

  302. Jessica Elytis

    [17:45] Yes. We need catagorization to search. By language for instance

  303. Qu Qi

    [17:45] in world searches could easily use an xml interface on the web. one server side implementation.

  304. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:45] well, once they get the quirks out of places search. apparently that sort of stuff taxes the system

  305. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:46] categorisation by language would require the language field to be reworked into a drop-down menu

  306. Jessica Elytis

    [17:46] Google-seraches don’t give proper results after so much data

  307. Rox Arten

    [17:46] we already have the beginnings of the web in world concept… with the web tab on profiles

  308. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:46] you’d have to make it a full text indexed & partial search query currently

  309. Cyn Linden

    [17:46] Yes there are a lot of search improvements needed but they are a little out of the scope of support 🙂

  310. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:46] ok, back on topic then

  311. Jessica Elytis

    [17:46] Yes, but it works hand in hand with support

  312. Shirley Marquez

    [17:47] OK, Cyn, lead us back to the promised topic land

  313. Cyn Linden

    [17:47] Yes it does, but it is beyond what I am able to talk about right now I am afraid

  314. Rox Arten

    [17:47] at this point the biggest issue i see with support is the appearance that it isn’t there… with no response to serious issues both in world and by email

  315. Jessica Elytis

    [17:47] Support’s biggest issue is giving it right now. People wait to long to get the reslts they want.

  316. Cyn Linden

    [17:47] well really, what all are you curious about beyond what we have discussed?

    [17:48] yes, that is very true, hence all the changes we are making, we ceratinly recognize that 🙂

  317. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:48] I asked a question earlier, and it would help me with some ideas here. in the lindens eyes,as far as support goes, what is the lindens responsibility and what is left up to the community?

  318. Qu Qi

    [17:48] the infohubs are where newbies end up headed to the mainlands. some of them are unfinished builds and almost none of them have anyone maintaining them. well, I speak of the old ones anyway.

  319. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:48] Ah yes

  320. Shirley Marquez

    [17:48] when you said we wouldn’t be discussing abuse, you took a lot of the issues off the table… response to that sort of problem is a big issue

  321. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:48] speaking of newbies

    [17:48] Korea

  322. Qu Qi

    [17:48] it would be nice to have teleporter links to help island from all the infohubs for example.

  323. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:48] for the most part

  324. Jessica Elytis

    [17:48] Hence our discussion. Eitehr technical, or staffing for a solution. Staffing costs money. Technical takes design and implentations (time)

  325. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:48] is totally unmanned by Volunteers

  326. Qu Qi

    [17:48] and a standard set of newbie notecards etc.

  327. Robin Linden

    [17:48] It’s our view that the residents should be able to take increasing control over their experience.

  328. Rox Arten

    [17:49] well as for the info hubs, why not do something along the lines of the train station builds

  329. Jessica Elytis

    [17:49] Yes, Robin, but we don’t have the tools or authority to do so

  330. Robin Linden

    [17:49] So you’ll see tools on the mainland similar to those on the estates where you can create a covenant that establishes what’s allowed on your parcel

  331. Rox Arten

    [17:49] that would help get them built at least

  332. Robin Linden

    [17:49] I know Jessica, but they’re coming.

  333. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:49] which results in rampant flouting of the rules, griefing and people with the group title of "GANGBANGER" offering to "help" newbies

  334. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:49] those would be very nice

  335. Robin Linden

    [17:49] T

  336. Shirley Marquez

    [17:49] there WAS a process for submitting infohub builds a while back

    [17:49] a few got built, but ongoing commitment to them seems to be lacking

  337. Qu Qi

    [17:49] Robin: exactly. but the infohubs are linden only now. so no residents can clean them up or improve them.

  338. Robin Linden

    [17:50] signpost: pathfinder is working on integrating and upgrading the volunteer program. You should send your ideas to him.

  339. Jessica Elytis

    [17:50] A lot of us did on our own anyway. I have an information pack giver on my land.

  340. Robin Linden

    [17:50] Qu: I think that Torley has arrangements with local residents at many of the infohubs to manage them.

  341. Stormy Wilde

    [17:50] What if residents had the options to build and maintain their own info hubs and have them listed as such on the map and in world?

  342. Rox Arten

    [17:50] Then not to be pushy but i would suggest that those that are falling by the wayside be reopened

  343. Robin Linden

    [17:50] If you have an infohub near your land which needs attention just let torley know

  344. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:50] you mean like a places category ?

  345. Qu Qi

    [17:50] jessica: agreed, but those are not right in the face of newbies.

  346. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:50] is there any way to revamp in-game announcements? it seems right now they are just a pop-up, and gone. and if you weren’t logged in, you have no clue what was going on

  347. Rox Arten

    [17:50] to proposals etc however you wish to do them I know I would be more than happy to donate the time to build one

  348. Robin Linden

    [17:51] Stormy: many of the infohubs *were* built by residents in that region.

  349. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:51] wouldn’t that just go under "Newcomer Friendly" ?

  350. Qu Qi

    [17:51] robin: will do. thanx.

  351. Robin Linden

    [17:51] If you want an infohub just get your neighbors together and get some agreement.

  352. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:51] an active window featuring past announcements to the grid would be a great help in eliminating many live help calls

  353. Robin Linden

    [17:51] If there’s any unused Linden land nearby we might be able to use it for that purpose.

  354. Qu Qi

    [17:51] they *were* yes. but then they changed ownership to lindens.

  355. Stormy Wilde

    [17:51] Right but i mean make an option to make their own on their land, that they maintain and have them listed as resident info hubs

  356. Qu Qi

    [17:51] the one in periwinkle is a good example. railings missing, notcard hadouts that don’t work etc.

  357. Rox Arten

    [17:52] i have plots near lots of "future road or railway" plots owned by LL

  358. Robin Linden

    [17:52] Yes Delerium — it would be very cool to do that.

    [17:52] Maybe when we get html on a prim

  359. Qu Qi

    [17:52] delerium: that’s a good idea. show the startup links on a web widget listed under help.

  360. Robin Linden

    [17:52] then you could have a blog window open in SL

  361. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:53] that would work too

  362. HikaruNo Go

    [17:53] Qu: So your ideas involve a more open environment? Where the denizens have more control over things like infohubs?

  363. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:53] Another geeky suggestion that I make every so often, but now it can actually be done:

  364. Qu Qi

    [17:53] Rox: agreed. I’ve been working on rail and ferry scripts. more will be coming. 🙂

  365. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:53] One of the causes of texture-related bugs is old graphics drivers

  366. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:53] lol

  367. Rox Arten

    [17:53] 🙂 great i buy land on purpose near them lol

  368. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:54] I recently helped someone fix a problem with corrupted avatar textures by telling them to upgrade their graphics drivers

  369. Qu Qi

    [17:54] HG: yes. to get residents more involved in the infohubs specifically where newbies start out.

  370. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:54] I can’t speak for nVidia,

  371. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:54] and a myriad of people who don’t know how to update their drivers

  372. Jessica Elytis

    [17:54] We need a place to send people for learning. Not a bunch of little places, but one central location. (or group of sims as the populations grows)

  373. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:54] but I do know that ATI have an RSS feed for the Catalyst drivers

    [17:54] it would behelpful to REsidents if this was displayed on the logon screen next to the Linden Blog updates

  374. Cyn Linden

    [17:54] Jessica: LIke a bigger Public Help Island?

  375. Rox Arten

    [17:55] I have nVIdia cards in my systems I get auto update notices

  376. Qu Qi

    [17:55] jessica: I do not agree. one central place does not scale. newbies get lost in the conversations.

  377. HikaruNo Go

    [17:55] A central location is nice. But it would have to be constructed with a large population in mind.

  378. Jessica Elytis

    [17:55] Yes. Though with people there to help and answer questions on where to find infomation

  379. Rox Arten

    [17:55] yes a bigger public help island would be great right now it tensds to be overfilled constantly

  380. Jessica Elytis

    [17:55] Not to answer the questiosn, but on helping them FIDN the answers

  381. HikaruNo Go

    [17:55] (e.g. few prims, to facilitate more avatars, both needy and providers)

  382. Cenji Neutra

    [17:55] Yeah, a bunch of connected sims with official looking ‘Linden offices’ and Linden on hand, maybe a ticket-number system for queuing or something?

  383. Qu Qi

    [17:55] need a scalable set of places based on how many volunteers are around. but with the same or similar info available.

  384. Jessica Elytis

    [17:55] NCI had a good idea running, but doesn’t get the publicity

  385. Shirley Marquez

    [17:55] I’ve often seen people unable to even reach the public Orientation and Help Islands because they’re full

  386. Second Life

    [17:55] SignpostMarv Martin is of the opinion that Help Island needs to be the size of Korea of SL Germany

  387. HikaruNo Go

    [17:56] I need to FIDN some answers… 😉

  388. Jessica Elytis

    [17:56] And even if we Residents run it, the informations centers NEED Linden backing.

  389. Shirley Marquez

    [17:56] perhaps having each section be a separate island would be about right

  390. Rox Arten

    [17:56] yes they do

  391. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:56] Help Island needs a bigger sandbox 😛

  392. HikaruNo Go

    [17:56] And an incentive to the helpers. Not all are purely altruistic, although those types are the best.

  393. Rox Arten

    [17:57] some kidn of approval system so we don’t get people bullying noobs on thier "land" in thier infohub

  394. Shirley Marquez

    [17:57] I’ve seen Mentors give stuff to new residents at their own expense

  395. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:57] Monetary incentives for Volunteers would be bad

  396. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:57] perhaps having a seperate tab in search for "help" or "education" that posts only events and people willing to help new players

  397. Jessica Elytis

    [17:57] Agreed, Sign

  398. HikaruNo Go

    [17:57] If a helpee can tally a +1 or -1 on their helper, and then a monetary compensation every week based on the score….

  399. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:57] It would encourage people to join just for the money

  400. Cyn Linden

    [17:57] INteresting, Delerium

  401. Shirley Marquez

    [17:57] LL paid instructors until a few days ago, and mostly it seemed to work pretty well

  402. Qu Qi

    [17:57] linden review of notecards with help info seems practical, then have a submission system and push them out to all the infobubs.

  403. Shirley Marquez

    [17:58] (disclosure; I’m an Instructor)

  404. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:58] Heh

  405. Qu Qi

    [17:58] er infohubs. 🙂

  406. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:58] Paid instructors didn’t always work

  407. Stormy Wilde

    [17:58] I know I have seen alot of new live helpers using the system to promote their own clubs/business and not actualy helping the person with the problem, just telling someone who say messages Live Help to ask how to get more money, to go to their club and X time tomorrow for money.

  408. Delerium Hannibal

    [17:58] right now they can search in the regular events. but I think for education and helping, it needs to stand out

  409. Robin Linden

    [17:58] It’s getting to be time to wrap up.

  410. Shirley Marquez

    [17:58] true, there were some poor teachers who just seemed to be in it for the money

  411. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:58] There is a certain Resident Instructors group that flouted the instructors guidelines on a regular basis

  412. Robin Linden

    [17:58] You’ve given us a lot to think about! (even in the half hour I’ve been here!)

  413. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:58] classes not lasting an hour, and not realyl being beneficial at all

  414. Robin Linden

    [17:59] If you have other ideas please let us know.

  415. Shirley Marquez

    [17:59] I don’t think I’ve ever gotten out of one of my classes less than ten minutes PAST the hour

  416. Cyn Linden

    [17:59] Thank you, all, for comng, we really appreciate the feedback, keep it coming!

  417. SignpostMarv Martin

    [17:59] I did put a suggestion for Volunteer incentives into the roundtable mailing list

  418. Rox Arten

    [17:59] I only ever taught level 1 classes for new players… not always running the hour with the full class but usually more than an hour after helping insure that all students got the project completed

  419. Shirley Marquez

    [17:59] Thank you for having us, Cyn

  420. Jessica Elytis

    [17:59] I have a notecard I made for notes to talk about today,Robin. A lot is now not relevant due to the Update or discussions ehre, but would you like a copy for review?

  421. Dan Doyle

    [17:59] Yes thank you for having us

  422. Rox Arten

    [17:59] Yes thank you 🙂

  423. Cyn Linden

    [17:59] Sure. sorry we have to wrap it up

  424. Cenji Neutra

    [18:00] yeah, the multiple meetings with limited numbers was a good idea.

  425. Delerium Hannibal

    [18:00] yes. I did enjoy being a part of htis

  426. Cyn Linden

    [18:00] we hope so, they have been very positive so far

  427. Robin Linden

    [18:00] I’m going to take all your feedback and that from the other 4 groups and I’ll compile it for another blog post

  428. Shirley Marquez

    [18:00] with those Level 1 classes, Rox, run time varies wildly depending on the skill level of the students

  429. Cyn Linden

    [18:00] its a huge job, we don’t mind asking for help 🙂

  430. HikaruNo Go

    [18:00] Thanks, guys.

  431. Rox Arten

    [18:00] on a persoanl note any suggestion on how to get my billing question answered i have sent several emails.

  432. SignpostMarv Martin

    [18:00] give me a few seconds and I’ll have this chat log posted on my blog

  433. Cenji Neutra

    [18:00] thank you.

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