Presentation on the Ogoglio Project by Trevor Steptoe

  1. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:05] let’s get started

    [19:05] let me first say

    [19:05] thanks all for coming

  2. Second Life

    [19:05] Code Tracer grins

  3. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:06] to this Kuurian Epxedition presentation

    [19:06] we’re very excited

    [19:06] to have the FIRST

    [19:06] presentation of rival virtual world in Second Life ๐Ÿ™‚

    [19:06] (or not)

  4. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:06] Gulp

  5. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:06] Trevor is going to tellus all about the Ogoglio project

    [19:07] and hopefully lead us in some wild and crazy discussion

    [19:07] so with that – take it away trevor!

  6. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:07] Hello, everyone, and thanks for coming.

    [19:07] This was originally going to be a small roundtable discussion but more people came than expected so I?ll start with a short piece of slideware about the Ogoglio project and then I?ll open the floor to questions which will eventually devolve into mass chaos, I?m sure.

  7. Scott Millions

    [19:07] yay chaos

  8. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:08] For the past few years I worked in an office next to Nic Ducheneaut of the PlayOn project.

    [19:08] Through his research I learned that a large population of people are coordinating large scale collaboration using online spaces like World of Warcraft.

    [19:08] Millions of people spend hours each night building coalitions using rich communication channels in MMORPGs…

    [19:09] but then in the morning they go to work or school and revert to thin channels like email, or (if they?re lucky) a shared calendar.

  9. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:09] yay Outlook!

  10. via Destroy Television

    [19:09] SNOOP: wow it’s wow!

  11. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:09] It seemed wrong, somehow.

  12. via Destroy Television

    [19:09] dtv: weak

  13. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:09] Around the same time I saw Raph Koster give a talk about the magic circle, a metaphor for the isolation a game uses to encourage play.

    [19:10] The idea is that the fun of online games comes about because games exist in a separate universe of discourse from our everyday lives.

    [19:10] So we take on new names, new forms, and ignore outside events so that we can manipulate ourselves and the game system in a self imposed ?Plato?s Cave of Happiness?.

    [19:11] I began to ask the question ?What happens if we erase the magic circle??

    [19:11] What happens if we lose the fantasy but keep the space. What happens if we swap the guild with the workgroup and the quest with the project?

    [19:11] Around the same time I took a year off to be an all-day-dad for my new daughter, so I had a lot of time to think about these questions during feedings, changings, and at 3AM playtime. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  14. Scott Millions

    [19:11] boo diapers

  15. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:12] No, you have to learn to love em or you go crazy.

  16. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:12] not a lot of lag at 3am..

  17. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:12] Hoping to find that someone had done this work for me, I began a survey of online spaces which have broken out of the magic circle in one way or another.

    [19:12] (not the diaper work, the 3space work) ๐Ÿ˜‰

    [19:12] I read the CVE research papers…

    [19:13] I looked at the Ludicorp?s Game Neverending, Second Life,, Activeworlds and Augmented Reality Games like ?I heart bees?.

    [19:13] While I find these spaces fascinating, none of them erase the magic circle.

    [19:13] They use pseudonyms and role playing, are set in fantasy locations, or forbid the inclusion of external information.

    [19:14] For example, Second Life?s terms of service forbid us from revealing another person?s first life identity.

    [19:14] In addition, most online spaces have the annoying feature of requiring a constantly updated software client, an expensive PC, and (usually) Windows.

  18. Second Life

    [19:14] Code Tracer agrees

  19. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:14] I was looking at the resources the SL client uses and it’s huge. 16 threads, 500+ MB of RAM…

  20. Something Something

    [19:15] a few years from now that may not matter…

  21. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:15] So, I read a lot about urban planning and then developed user profiles and scenarios about people using online spaces which connect to the rest of their lives and support creative work.

    [19:15] Something: agreed.

    [19:16] After many iterations and technology experiments, I boiled the ideas down to a set of design criteria which I wrote up, blogged, emailed to everyone in my address book (and now I shamelessly plug them every opportunity).

    [19:16] My broad idea is to create Ogoglio City, an online urban space for creative collaboration.

  22. Decka Mah

    [19:16] Link please

  23. Trevor Steptoe


    [19:17] Because there is no magic circle, you will be yourself and use your existing communication channels (email, IRC, skype, IM, blogs…) alongside and inside of Ogoglio City.

  24. Something Something

    [19:17] origin of the name?

  25. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:18] In the densely populated places of Ogoglio City you will interact with other people using channels and gestures like in Second Life…

  26. Scott Millions

    [19:18] !

  27. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:18] In addition, you will access Ogoglio City through your web browser, pull media from the rest of the web,

    [19:18] collaboratively remix it, and then push it right out to the rest of the world.

    [19:19] Los Angles and New York are urban engines for broadcast culture, but Ogoglio City will be an urban engine for participatory culture. (sorry for the buzz phrase)

  28. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:19] you need a 2.0 in there..

  29. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:19] Of course, this sounds like we?ll need an army of geeks to make it happen, right?

  30. Second Life

    [19:19] Chance Takashi takes three points from Steptoe for using buzz phrases.

  31. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:19] And an amry of lawyers.

  32. Sean McDunnough

    [19:19] yes… where’s the army?

  33. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:19] or the _right_ geeks.

  34. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:19] And an army of artists…

    [19:19] That?s what I thought until I found that the core components are already available under open source licenses. There are open 3D renderers, open scripting engines, open servers, open modelers, open web browsers…

    [19:20] More importantly, there are millions of people who know how to build distributed web applications using open standards.

  35. Morgan Skye

    [19:20] funding?

  36. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:20] So the question becomes "Can you make building something like Ogoglio City the same as building the web?"

    [19:21] Funding is a huge issue, of course.

    [19:21] If you’re going to build a big service like SL.

    [19:21] But if you’re going to build a platform to distribute the load and effort…

    [19:22] You have different models for funding than finding big VCs or easy going angels.

    [19:23] So, I’ve put a summary of the platform at and…

    [19:23] And I’ve blogged the process at

    [19:23] And I think that instead of going into more detail about any one thing that I’ll just open the floor for discussion.

  37. Something Something

    [19:24] Is it really necessary to insist on leaving the "magic circle" as you put it? What about Shawn Fanning’s Rupture, which builds on top of WoW?

    [19:24] Shawn Fanning of Napster fame, that is

  38. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:24] There’s a lot of room for different types of online spaces.

  39. Ralph Silversten

    [19:24] Is your original design online? Link?

  40. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:24] For some things it’s great to play inside a magic circle.

  41. Morgan Skye

    [19:25] Why close the door to fantasy? Why not have both?

  42. Sean McDunnough

    [19:25] will you allow people to remain anonymous… inside the magic circle if they choose?

  43. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:25] Ralph: Do you mean the source or the docs?

  44. Chance Takashi

    [19:25] So you say that people will do collaborative-y stuff in O City… Tying into e-mail, web, etc… But what metaphor do you see them using. Do I go to my O City office and check e-mail on my virtual computer there? Or do I get "letters"? Or what?

  45. Morgan Skye

    [19:25] A fantasy avatar may be a good marketing tool.

  46. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:26] Sean: there are two topics I could address about that: the platform or Ogoglio City (the service I’m building)

  47. Ralph Silversten

    [19:26] Docs

  48. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:26] Sean: which do you mean?

  49. Lamont Helvetic

    [19:26] I can’t wait to use a fireball on a co-worker

  50. Morgan Skye

    [19:26] heh

  51. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:26] My plan is to build the platform out under an open source license, with help from any interested parties.

  52. Sean McDunnough

    [19:26] I didn’t realise there was a distinction

  53. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:27] The "Ogoglio City" service will be initially owned by my company.

  54. Sean McDunnough

    [19:27] so you are both talking about supporting an open platform and ceating a world of your own out of that?

  55. Something Something

    [19:27] If WoW "is the new golf", well a lot of business gets transacted on golf courses ๐Ÿ™‚

  56. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:27] But I really hope that other people open their own services.

  57. Code Tracer

    [19:27] Trevor is there an online prototype or demo that we can try?

  58. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:27] And we can figure out how to interact.

    [19:28] Code: I’ve applied for a sourceforge project and I’ll pour the prototype into it when it gets approved.

  59. Scott Millions

    [19:28] not quite sure what "the service" is

  60. Chance Takashi

    [19:28] How do you see those interactions and services taking place? My e-mail client is suited to its task. How does that translate into O City?

  61. Code Tracer

    [19:28] oki which standards u r building on

  62. Scott Millions

    [19:28] x3d?

  63. Sean McDunnough

    [19:28] I admire the goal of creating an open platform… I think we need it… but how are you going to rally the community support necessary?

  64. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:28] Let’s be clear. I’m not against the magic circle. I just think there is value in providing services without out it.

  65. Code Tracer

    [19:29] folks folks.. he is trying to build 3d web

  66. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:29] Sean: Well, I talk to a lot of people about it, I’m funding some commercial efforts on the open licensed code…

  67. Code Tracer

    [19:29] so build on whatever u want

    [19:29] whether FRP or Porn

    [19:30] so standards?

  68. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:30] Code: Right! So I have an idea for a service, but it will be built on an open platform that others can use for their own services.

  69. Code Tracer

    [19:30] i see u focused on java 3d and

    [19:30] what else?

  70. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:30] so, is the standard the server code, or a protocol?

  71. Rik Riel

    [19:30] What kind of authentification schema are you thinking of for people to prove they are who they are?

  72. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:30] Chance: The platform has a web API for each entity in the space, and it is pretty easy to get info in and out of the spaces.

    [19:31] Rik: I’m going with OpenID with CC authentication, but ideally people will be able to plug their own schemes in, like PAM modules.

  73. Chance Takashi

    [19:31] Right, but my point is, how do you see the 2d apps being used in a 3d computer world? I’ve seen too many 3dWeb apps that are just rooms with print on the walls.

  74. Something Something

    [19:32] Three-B ( seems to be another effort to add 3D to web pages. I’m not all that familiar with it, but have you heard of it and how would it compare to Ogoglio?

  75. Lamont Helvetic

    [19:32] so each service, built on the platform, would determine the approprite level of anonyminity/transparency for their purpose

  76. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:32] let’s try and wait for one question to be answered before we ask the next one

  77. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:32] Chance: Noone really wants a 2D app slapped onto the wall of their online house. I think we should look at bridges between service APIs that give us context without trying to reinvent the wheel.

    [19:33] 3B is pretty neat. You set up URLs for each wall of your space, and people see the web pages rendered there.

    [19:33] They have some neat ideas, but as far as I can tell they’re focused on that one product.

  78. Chance Takashi

    [19:34] That makes sense. So how would you see an example collaboration work? Can you give me an example of what I would do in O City on a regular day?

  79. Rik Riel

    [19:34] good question

  80. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:34] I wrote up a couple of scenarios on my blog.. Let me fetch a URL of one of them…

  81. Chance Takashi

    [19:35] Oh, I’m sorry. I only made it so far back in your blog before I got distracted by something shiny.

  82. Trevor Steptoe


  83. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:35] isn’t it the same idea as collaborating in SL??

  84. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:36] Yes and no. Because the SL platform is bound to a single developer it isn’t possible to bring in technologies unless LL does so.

    [19:36] So, if I want to build a nice IMAP to SL client, I can’t. Or I have to jump through some painful hoops.

  85. Denials Frazer

    [19:36] Trevor, how far along is the development of the platform itself? Are the basic elements there or are there still major gaps?

  86. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:36] Denials: It’s early days, no doubt. The easiest way to get a feel for things is to watch the screencasts on my blog.

    [19:37] But, multiple people can go to a site, log in, see each other, walk around, touch stuff, write scripts…

  87. Code Tracer

    [19:37] i just watched them while you were talking

    [19:37] i think,

    [19:37] u r kinda wrong path

    [19:37] as far as

    [19:38] i concern

  88. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:38] How so?

  89. Code Tracer

    [19:38] your idea is perfect

    [19:38] but the methods

    [19:38] look to me kinda

    [19:38] not flexible

  90. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:38] No doubt, some of the technologies have bad qualities. Not flexible?

  91. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:38] can you elaborate?

  92. Code Tracer

    [19:38] well let’s talk about

    [19:38] bit torrent

    [19:39] folks

    [19:39] and the path they followed if you have time

    [19:39] we want to stick with web

  93. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:39] What part of what I’ve done isn’t "the web"?

  94. Code Tracer

    [19:39] which is stateless env. kind

    [19:39] so what?

  95. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:39] That’s kind of a problem, when you’re trying to share a simulation.. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  96. Code Tracer

    [19:40] oki i think we have to see more to understand

  97. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:40] Someone mentioned funding, and I think there will be different methods of funding for the different parties involved.

  98. Morgan Skye

    [19:40] you mean for each different company?

  99. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:41] Like a lot of people don’t make or spend any money with the Apache server, I think a lot of people will host an online space with no business attached.

  100. Morgan Skye

    [19:41] assuming that each will have it’s agenda

  101. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:41] Morgan: Companies like mine will be involved and have their own agenda, but that’s nothing new for OSS development.

    [19:42] The key is licensing and developing in such a way that even if I turn into Doctor Evil the code remains out there.

  102. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:42] but each service will be separate and independent?

    [19:42] or is it all one happy metaverse?

  103. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:42] Sadly, my answer is "Both"

  104. Denials Frazer

    [19:43] The fact is, a lot of companies will want it separate

  105. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:43] It takes a lot of coordination to get a shared space to look like One Big World, so if some services want that, they’ll need to coordinate.

    [19:43] For companies, that usually means contracts and lawyers.

    [19:43] For individuals or groups, it doesn’t have to mean anything execpt a handshake.

  106. Sean McDunnough

    [19:44] I don’t see anthing wrong with creating separate worlds… providing they are based on open standards and are therefore interoperable

  107. Denials Frazer

    [19:44] Universities could be leaders in shared spaces

  108. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:44] But, I think SL is hobbled by trying to fit everyone in a single space, and it’s just not how the web works.

    [19:44] Some people want real names, and some don’t.

    [19:44] Why try and fit everyone into a single space?

  109. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:44] / can you compare ogoglio to OpenCroquet, MUPPETS, and MultiVerse?

  110. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:45] All three of the other projects you mentioned rock, but they aren’t "on the web".

    [19:45] You access them through a stand-alone client.

    [19:45] And they aren’t built from web technologies (e.g. web servers, web languages, web protocols)

  111. Sean McDunnough

    [19:45] isn’t opencroquet trying to *be* the web?

  112. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:46] And I think that’s a big mistake.

    [19:46] IMHO, nothing will replace the web, because whatever comes next will just be more web!

  113. Sean McDunnough

    [19:46] but opencroquet are trying to integrate the os with the net, which is different

  114. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:47] Open Croquet have some strange ideas about how Squeak is the answer.

    [19:47] To OSes, to the web…

    [19:47] To all 3D problems…

  115. Something Something

    [19:47] SL offers the "real names or not" option in the "1st Life" tab of your profile. Similarly Wikipedia uses "magic circle" pseudonyms, but people can put their RL bios on their profile page. So perhaps it’s not too much of a major issue?

  116. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:47] I don’t get it, but I like a lot of their ideas about how to approach the problem.

    [19:48] The thing is, I’m not trying to make a platform that eats all the other platform. I’m trying to make a platform that is porous enough to bridge to anything on the web.

  117. Sean McDunnough

    [19:48] it would be good to see a complete redesign of the net integrating the web, but I guess what you are saying is that thw web is here to stay, so we may as well build on it?

  118. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:48] Something: To a lot of business people, it’s a big issue.

  119. Nobody Fugazi

    [19:49] are you factoring in international policy somehow?

  120. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:49] Sean: And more importantly, web developers are already here so lets give them 3D tools.

  121. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:49] hold on ppl, not too many at once

  122. Scott Millions

    [19:49] what no chaos ?

  123. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:49] ve vill have order!

  124. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:49] Chaos comes after punch and pie, Scott.

  125. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:50] Nobody had a question on international policy

  126. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:50] Nobody: could you elaborate on the international policy question?

  127. Poinky Malaprop

    [19:50] nice ๐Ÿ™‚

  128. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:50] My policy on internationals is to give them punch and pie.

  129. Nobody Fugazi

    [19:51] well, in discussing what is porous, I must ask how porosity is possible where varying geopolitical infrastructures are involved; even WSIS and IGF have not given reasonable results.

  130. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:51] Nobody: It’s true that when you bridge a lot of services together something is always broken.

    [19:52] But, my goal is to build a platform on the web, so the best I can do it to be broken in exactly the same way as the web.

  131. Nobody Fugazi

    [19:52] thanks. ๐Ÿ™‚

  132. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:52] HTTP is a really crappy protocol, but it’s broken in lots of nice ways.

  133. Code Tracer

    [19:52] http is TCP

    [19:52] so use it

    [19:53] my questiong is

    [19:53] will u bring us a new standard like jabber

    [19:53] did for IM landscape

  134. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:54] Actually, I’m trying to invent as little as possible. Like I said during the slideware, most of what is needed to build this thing is sitting around in various open source projects.

  135. Ralph Silversten

    [19:54] Are you just using the browser as a container for Java versions of open source code for 3d?

  136. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:54] Jabber is a good example, because I’m not going to reinvent an IM messaging platform, but bring in one that exists already.

    [19:55] Ralph: Um. What?

  137. Code Tracer

    [19:55] so you cannnot eat all virtual reality wolds…

    [19:55] u have to wrap them all

    [19:55] or integrate

    [19:55] u will end up writing web applet to SL tooo

  138. Denials Frazer

    [19:56] Would that be a bad thing?

  139. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:56] Well, like I said, I’m not trying to kill any other service. I don’t think there’s a competitor to the service I’d like to build.

  140. Scott Millions

    [19:56] dont forget virtual magic kingdom!

  141. Ralph Silversten

    [19:57] Will you be using java in the browser just to remove the download & install for a client?

  142. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:57] There are other 3D spaces, but it’s like saying that Amazon will kill Flickr. They don’t compete.

    [19:57] Ralph: I’m using Java3D in the prototype, but the client software can be written in any language that can be run in a browser plugin.

  143. Denials Frazer

    [19:58] but the client software has to support a given protocol?

  144. Trevor Steptoe

    [19:58] Java3D has lots of warts, but it is the most widely available 3D library for browser plugins which runs on multiple platforms.

    [19:59] Denials: Yes. The client speaks HTTP and a simple event protocol for world updates.

  145. Ralph Silversten

    [19:59] Then wht fdo you mean by being WEb? YOu ahve your own server and clients that plug into a browser but run your sofware.

  146. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:00] The prototype is mainly a tool for exploring technologies, so don’t get too stuck on it.

    [20:00] Raph: You see the space in your browser. The server is hosted in the Tomcat web server…

    [20:00] It uses web languages and protocols…

    [20:00] Scripting is in ECMAScript.

    [20:01] 2D layout is in HTML…

    [20:01] That’s pretty much on the web.

  147. Ralph Silversten

    [20:01] What if SL were to implement their client as abrowser plug-in and thie messagingaencoded oberhttp?

  148. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:02] If they did that and opened their source and somehow convinced Havok to open their libraries…

  149. Code Tracer

    [20:02] It is now possible in 50-60 lines of code

    [20:02] grep LibSL

    [20:02] compile as activeX

  150. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:02] And opened the server…

    [20:02] It isn’t that SL can never get there technically. I’m just betting that they won’t.

  151. Scott Millions

    [20:02] boo activex

  152. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:03] Windows only. Right.

    [20:03] If something isn’t on more than Windows I don’t consider it on the web.

  153. Ralph Silversten

    [20:03] Actually I appreciate and support your approach

  154. Lamont Helvetic

    [20:03] there is no incentive for SL to create an open platform for their competitors

  155. Code Tracer

    [20:03] yes but depends like u do u can write an applet for SL i sniffed the protocol simple TCP and UDP not encrypted nothing..

  156. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:03] Lamont: though they say they want to, they really can’t open enough to make it worthwhile to others.

    [20:03] They don’t own their physics engine.

    [20:04] They don’t own their texture libs.

    [20:04] What’s SL without physics and textures? Errr. It would probably still look better than my prototype. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  157. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:05] will there be any difference in terms of capability between ogolio and SL?

  158. Second Life

    [20:05] Nobody Fugazi arches an eyebrow. LL doesn’t own their texture lib and physics engine?

  159. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:05] What sort of capabilities do you mean?

  160. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:05] (textures are done using 3rd party JPEG2000 lib)

  161. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:05] Nobody: SL uses Havok as their physics engine.

  162. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:06] are their featurs in SL, that you don’t think are necessary in your environment

  163. Scott Millions

    [20:06] nude skins

  164. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:06] Well, there’s the crashing…. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    [20:06] But I’m sure the Ogoglio platform will have that, too.

  165. Lamont Helvetic

    [20:06] who says nude skins aren’t necessary?

  166. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:06] It’s unclear what the platform itself should have in the way of permissions.

  167. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:07] I’ve been thinking about why SL is successful, and if it is possible to scale back some of the features and still have a viable and useful system obviously does not have sufficient capability.

  168. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:07] There are different approaches, some which are like web servers, where the whole space is owned by the server owner.

    [20:07] But you could also run it like SL so that different parcels are owned by different people.

  169. Denials Frazer

    [20:07] I think that if the architecture could be opened up so that the whole grid wasn’t being taken down with a single grey goo attack, that would be a great improvement

    [20:08] Different web servers sounds like it could be a good step in that direction

  170. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:08] So, I think different developers will do different things. There’s a lot to SL that isn’t the 3D part.

    [20:09] And it’s still up in the air where to draw the line between the live support back end and the world platform.

  171. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:09] so we’re sort of over time

    [20:09] any last words on how to join the project and help you out?

  172. Code Tracer

    [20:09] yes

  173. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:09] Ok, thanks for coming and asking good questions.

  174. Code Tracer

    [20:09] i am wiling to

    [20:09] see more and join

  175. Scott Millions

    [20:10] ok chaos time!

  176. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:10] My email is up there on the screen and in the next few days I’ll be opening a forum for discussion. If you want an invite email me, or just watch the blog.

  177. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:10] great! thanks, Trevor!

  178. Denials Frazer

    [20:10] Thanks for giving good answers ๐Ÿ™‚ I’d like to find out more about the project

  179. JimmyJet Fossett

    [20:10] Thanks Trevor, interesting stuff!

  180. Code Tracer

    [20:10] ty

  181. Poinky Malaprop

    [20:10] and w elook forward to being invited to an update in Ogoglio city

  182. Decka Mah

    [20:11] thanks Trevor

  183. Nobody Fugazi

    [20:11] ty Trevor

  184. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:11] You all are by far the best informed group I’ve talked to about Ogoglio.

  185. Sean McDunnough

    [20:11] thanks Trevor… it’s a ver ambitious project, but I hope it comes off

  186. Trevor Steptoe

    [20:11] Mostly I just get questions about how Ogoglio is different than Quicktime or Jini. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  187. Nobody Fugazi

    [20:11] O.o

  188. Sean McDunnough

    [20:11] doh!

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