SignpostMarv's SL Blog

moved, again

SignpostMarv Martin — Thu, 17 May 2007 23:24:28 +0000

After a few problems last week with the WP 2.1.3 importer choking, I’ve finally managed to get my blog up and running over on blog.signpostmarv.name. As a result, this blog won’t be updated any more, so in the rare event that you’ve still got a bookmark for this URL, point them towards the new one.

In the unlikely event that your DNS server sucks and you’re seeing this post under blog.signpostmarv.name, do yourself a favour and switch to Open DNS.

summary of Town Hall with Cory Linden

SignpostMarv Martin — Thu, 03 May 2007 23:34:33 +0000

Database Scalability

Linden Lab hadn’t upgraded to MySQL 5 since it’s release as it wasn’t until recently that the performance and stability of MySQL 4 compared to version 5 satisfied Linden Lab’s requirements.

Linden Lab are currently upgrading to MySQL 5.

Linden Lab are putting more effort into more scalable architecture rather than using a centralised database source. Once bugs related to database communication are fixed, servers will be deployed overseas (over 65% of Second Lifers are from outside the US).

Login Throttling

Linden Lab are being careful about using the login throttling features until they’re more sure of when it’s appropriate to use it.

It would be bad for the community as a whole if the length of time free accounts could spend in-world was limited.

Free accounts aren’t as high a load issue as people seem to think.

Gecko/uBrowser/llMozLib

Internally, development of integration of the Gecko rendering engine into the Second Life Viewer is a little starved for developer time. There is however an external development team working on it.

SL Vox

Voice chat is handled seperately to other grid processes, so there will be minimal impact on the load (e.g. little or no lag).

Note from Marv: ~~Download the Voice-enabled Viewer for the Beta Grid and test it out!~~ the latest preview features voice chat.

Content

Backing up content away from the grid.

Work should start on the ability to back up your full-perms content in Q3 2007.

Inventory Loss

69% of Linden Lab’s Development Team are working on improving the scaling and stability of the grid- this includes the processes involved in inventory transfers.

Linden Lab are also working on the next-gen architecture that will dramatically improve the scalability compared to the current grid.

The suggestion for adding the ability to verify inventory loss has been taken on board.

Search

abuse of the system

Linden Lab are working on a new design that is more resilient to spam-based attacks. More details will be released as work progresses.

Traffic

The current traffic metric is being removed as part of the new search project, and it’ll be removed ASAP.

QA/bugs

Many problems only appear when the grid is under high load- the Beta Grid is there for everyone to stress test and expose problems. The public issue tracker should be used to post new bugs, as well as reproductions/workarounds/fixes for existing ones.

The recent grid expansions haven’t affect grid stability- there were a couple of problems, one of which was removed last week, and another is being removed completely.

World Map

Linden Lab are aware of the bugs surrounding map images not being updated, and it’s being actively worked on.

Note from Marv: I know a bit about this . The process of generating the map images is being upgraded from a two-step process to a one-step process. Bugs in map generation will be ironed out as part of this improvement, as well as part of Linden Lab’s internal bug fixing processes.

Sculpted Prims

Exporters for 3D Modellers other than Maya are expected to be written, and the open source Viewer is also available as a means for the open source community to provide an integrated editor.

Oh Noes! Fizzlezorz :-(

SignpostMarv Martin — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:36:52 +0000

My computer died last night- hopefully it was just the PSU (it had the smell of fizzlezorz afterwards, and I thought I could smell something burning just beforehand).

I’m heading out to Newcastle today to buy a new PSU, so hopefully everything should be fixzorz by tonight- if not, then i’ll be posting on here via my wii again.

Thanks go out to Kai for letting peeps know the reason behind my sudden disappearance last night

Marv playing about with the Joystick Flycam debug option

SignpostMarv Martin — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:11:17 +0000

Click to Play

Found under the client menu, "Joystick Flycam" is a method of using the axis of your joystick (or any other game controller) to control the camera params. Up to 5 axis are supported currently, but since I'm on an old MS Sidewinder, it seems I can't use the throttle control for the zoom level

SL Metaphors – Webcomics

SignpostMarv Martin — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:49:17 +0000

Newbies on Oldbies

Nothing Nice To Say – Geriatric Brigade

SL Metaphors – Webcomics

SignpostMarv Martin — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 23:44:35 +0000

Abducting the Aliens

Afternoon Lag. Because Lag is the cause of all problems.

Summary of meeting with Jeff Linden on the SL Maps API

SignpostMarv Martin — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 00:47:08 +0000

Jeff Linden on the ‘old’ Linden Lab SL Maps API

In my opinion, we deployed it before we were really ready to scale it. The way it works is kinda awkward, as anyone who’s tried to hack it up can see.

I think, that what we really should be doing, is just giving out a sim image web service, a name to co-ordinate web service, and let Residents do with it what they will.

The SLOpenID SL Maps API

Jeff Linden on the SLOpenID SL Maps API

Well, I think you did pretty good, certainly a better improvement on the API than we did. In any case, I think for the future of the webmap, we’re in pretty much agreement.

SignpostMarv Martin on the SLOpenID SL Maps API

We’re grabbing the sim maps from the 1:1 scale images that the Linden Lab API spits out, then shrinking and compositing them ourselves for the higher levels.

The 1:1 region images are addressed much clearer- ahern.jpeg vs 997-277-1-0 and 992-1023 992-1023.jpeg vs 31-8-6-0 for example. (in SLOpenID’s higher zoom level example, the first two numbers represent the vertical range of grid co-ordinates, and the second set represent the horizontal range of grid co-ordinates- making it easier to figure out what regions are included in any zoomed out texture).

Jeff Linden on the future Linden Lab SL Maps API

Your API does pretty much everything we want in a future API, but in any case we need to solve our back-end problem first- which is “deliver the sim images in a better way“. I’m actually talking about more than just the API. the way we currently generate these images, it’s painful and delicate.

We only have access to jpeg2000 versions. So we regenerate them into jpgs and stick them in a central db. Then each webserver caches locally.

We only use them internally as jpeg2000 because of the world map in the Second Life Viewer. One developer’s finishing up changes to the in-world map image generator, to spit out both j2k and jpg versions.

Unfortunately, the webmap is not one of our top fires. Though it’s pretty high on our list.

I had jokingly offered Jeff the source code for the SLOpenID API, but as he’s said, there’s a lot of work to do before Linden Lab are ready for an upgrade.

The Viewer world map

SignpostMarv Martin on the world map

Here’s a suggestion: Get rid of the j2k version altogether, replace the world map and mini map with uBrowser. Then the load on grid servers will be instantly lifted. the other suggestion of course would be to add JPEG support into the client

Most of the metadata displayed on the world map is already available on the web. If all the data that the world map uses is available as a web service, then the Viewer can have a field that lets the end-user use a LL or Resident-made solution. Either that, or add greasemonkey support to the in-world browser. I’m sure Cristiano would love the in-world map to have a Snapzilla option.

Jeff Linden on the world map

Using uBrowser for the world map would be easier said than done. As long as we finish that one piece of work that will generate jpg map images. Then it’s just a simple matter of finding a place to cache and a lightweight web service.

It may not be too much work, actually- but I’m not the dev working on the uBrowser. However, the viewer is open source now- anything is possible there, right?

SLOpenID SL Maps API

SignpostMarv Martin — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 18:29:53 +0000

It’s not just SL4B that I’ve been working on recently, I’ve been doing geeky things for SLOpenID as well.

The SLOpenID SL Maps API post on the SLOpenID blog goes into a bit of detail on the low-complexity SL Maps API replacement for the official one, so I won’t go into too much about it here. I will say it’s worth checking out if you’re a bit frustrated with the complexity of the Linden Lab API.

Summary of meetings regarding discontiuation of Help Request

SignpostMarv Martin — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:15:52 +0000

The current state of Help Request

Live Help/Help Request has not scaled to meet the volume of Help Requests, nor the requests themselves.
Not changing with the times means that Help Request was becoming less and less helpful overall.
One of the problems with current support/help system is that it’s not targeting the people that need help the most
there have been an increasing number of innapropriate help calls like that….again…related to OI, interpersonal disputes, etc

The Ticketed Support System

Customer Support will be transitioning to a ticketed support system.
Help Request will not be running along side the ticketed system because of the way the new system has to be implemented it wasn’t possible-it would have meant pulling liaisons from the help channel completely, leaving you guys to bear the full load, which we didnt see as a fair alternative The liaisons who man HR now…need to train in the new system we don’t want to leave the system to decline until it collapses on the last few dedicated helpers
the new system is a way for people who need help the most to get it, not the last-come first-served method that help request can degrade into at times
There will be a gap of 3 to 5 weeks where there is neither Help Request nor the ticketed support system, but we should see Liaison specialists moving in to be available for serious issues at this point Help Request will be removed next wednesday Wednesday 18th April, 2007

SL Certification

Linden Lab are looking at creating SL Certification- Like becoming certified for things like Cisco Networking etc, we’d like people to be able to PROVE they know what they’re talking about in SL
- Blue mentioned that he’d like the Volunteers to help define what certification entails- if you were to be asked if you passed the certification test, it would be cool for you to be able to say…pass it…I WROTE IT
- the team working towards creating certification will be part of a larger goal towards providing education in SL

Volunteers and the Certification program

at this point certification is not related to the volunteer program
certification will be an option for residents who work in SL and want to prove their mettle….it’s not something we’re going to be requiring of volunteers, rather it’s something we would like to give volunteers an option to contribute to
the certification test would be given by a 3rd party company that specializes in certification, we will just be helping to define the test

Volunteers and Orientation Island

The new user experience currently results in roughly 10% retention
There are currently too many barriers to entry to find one’s place in their Second Life
A lot of Help Requests are things that should or could be answered during the Orientation process
Improving the Orientation Process means the newer Residents start off their Second Lives with a better education- getting to them earlier is more valuable to the people who need help the most
nobody is going to force anyone to camp the public OI/HI

Linden Lab Improvements

we have two teams that are moving into place to monitor the grid and respond to residents
1. 24/7 replacement for the Grid Monkey position
2. a Liaison team that coordinates with them and act as Early Responders they will also have 24/7 coverage. you will be able to contact them when there are replicators etc
The Liaison response team will be the lindens you can contact directly with issues, but I (Blue Linden) can’t talk with real authority on that as I didn’t work on that directly. I believe they (new Residents) are able to contact Liaison early responders directly
There will be 6 Lindens dedicated to the Volunteer program
we have 2 tech writers on staff now to help build out the knowledge base
expanding the volunteer program in ways that are proactive and produce cumulative effects makes more sense than continuing to try to address people one at a time, while we are quickly outnumbered
we are going to be requiring meeting attendance for volunteers….say one meeting every 3-4 months- nothing that will be restrictive to those of you who are regulars, but enough to sort out some of the people who just want the Mentors tag

Note from Marv: VWR-190 would be a good means of allowing Residents to access the self-help resources from within the Viewer.

SL Metaphors – Webcomics

SignpostMarv Martin — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 00:43:55 +0000

Your World, Your Imagination

Break Point City, episode 103-b.

Ollie Kubrick, Automotive Research Center

SignpostMarv Martin — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:56:41 +0000

Poinky Malaprop

[10:03] so, with that let’s get started
Ollie Kubrick

[10:03] Hello Znet
Znetlady Isbell

[10:03] Hi Ollie
Poinky Malaprop

[10:03] just as a brief intro

[10:04] Welcome to this Kuurian Expedition meeting, and thanks all for coming

[10:04] sorry we havent been having these as frequently as before, hopefully that will improve

[10:04] but for today we have Ollie Kubrick
Ollie Kubrick

[10:04] Hi
Poinky Malaprop

[10:04] talking about his ideas and projects

[10:05] and maybe leading us in a Ollieball Deathmatch
Ollie Kubrick

[10:05] hehe
Poinky Malaprop

[10:05] so.. take it away Ollie!

Ollie Kubrick

[10:05] Hi people and welcome to the ARC

[10:05] I’m Ollie

[10:05] I have only been in SL a very short time

[10:06] but I quickly understood what I wanted to do here

[10:06] basically my background is in media and I have always had a connection to 3D

[10:07] I have always sculpted and designed as well and when I arrived in SL and started making things, well I just couldnt stop

[10:07] I wanted a way to get around w more fluidity and I made a car

[10:07] that was fatefl bcuz as soon as I made it someone wanted to buy it

[10:07] that was about 3 or 4 days into SL

[10:08] after that I started to think seriously about what I could make and what was needed

[10:08] I started making cars/vehicles and they got a lot of attention

[10:08] hey Thai welcome
Thai Dye

[10:08] hello
Ollie Kubrick

[10:09] Poinkycan u tell Thai what the group is plz

[10:09] Ill go on
Jeremy Flagstaff

[10:09]
Ollie Kubrick

[10:09] after about a week or more I met the owner of this sim

[10:10] he saw what I had made ad didnt know what he wanted to do w it just that he wanted a presence in SL

[10:10] We made a deal and I started working

[10:10] that was about 2 months ago and the ARC is the result
Poinky Malaprop

[10:11] Living the Second Life dream…
Ollie Kubrick

[10:11] I have reconceived the idea of vehicles in SL and basically categorized them into 3 specific uses

[10:11] Games, Tools and Design

[10:11] I also decided to divide the ARC up into 3 parts to reflect that

[10:12] the lower part being all about games

[10:12] there is a 3D maze

[10:12] The OllieBall/SLoccer field

[10:12] or Ollisem as I call it

[10:12] and a few other things that are in development

[10:12] there is also a device to weigh ur avatar

[10:13] the level we are now on is the RED level it is about tools and is the commercial branch of the ARC

[10:13] if u folow the red path it leads to all the vhicles Ive made and is mostly about sales
Resident A

[10:13] Publication permission denied.
Ollie Kubrick

[10:13] np be welcome

[10:14] In my design commercial side I adapted a retro look bcuz I didnt see it in SL and I thought it particularly conducive to SL

[10:15] the Blue pat is more about art and design and it stats here at this level and goes up

[10:15] so there u have he basic structure

[10:15] the GREEN Ollies were made so that people could get around and try things out

[10:16] and play games with etc

[10:16] they are autoreturn as are the rest of the vehicles that can be used

[10:16] the game balls expire after nonuse so most things clean up after themselves

[10:17] The last thing Id like to say conecrns where I want to go

[10:17] Cars are literally my vehicle for going to another level and that is towards education
Jeremy Flagstaff

[10:18] sorry, gotta go, work emergency
Ollie Kubrick

[10:18] I see great potential for education in virt spaces so what I decided was to create an SL presence, get fnding and then use that to further my bigger goals
Poinky Malaprop

[10:18] see you jeremy
Znetlady Isbell

[10:18] Bye Jeremy!
Ollie Kubrick

[10:18] I have connections in the RW to many unis and other orgs

[10:18] so I have great hopes that my dreams can be realized

[10:18] Thank you for listenig

[10:19] ay questions before we start the tour?
Poinky Malaprop

[10:19] your building design is pretty unique

[10:19] with the color coding etc

[10:19] how did you arrive at this?
Resident A

[10:19] Publication permission denied.
Ollie Kubrick

[10:20] yes wel I was very confused when I first came to SL, I found many places made boxes and I thought that that is exactly what shouldnt be done
Poinky Malaprop

[10:20] thats great Plointer

[10:20] all are welcome
Resident A

[10:20] Publication permission denied.
Ollie Kubrick

[10:20] The beauty of SL is that u have a unique opportunity to do something different and I rebel against those that would want to make the same things as they see in RL
Ivy Innis

[10:20] i’m especially interested in educational uses…
Ollie Kubrick

[10:21] so i strive to find that which is solely unique to SL

[10:21] I have examles of everything I have refferred to so far

[10:22] I tend to take a very practical, how can I make interfaces unique and intuitive approach

[10:22] I would be happy to go into more detail but I guess I should get a caddy and maybe we can al fit

[10:22] or most and the rest will have to grab a green scooter ort car

[10:23] if u wait here I will come back w one
Poinky Malaprop

[10:23] great
Ollie Kubrick

[10:23] are tere any other questions before I go get the car?

[10:23] oh and if we crash then meet back here

[10:23] SL is so unpredictable at times

[10:24] sry i need some room ehe
Decka Mah

[10:25] Hi P
Poinky Malaprop

[10:25] I’ll go get another cat
Ollie Kubrick

[10:25] hop in those that want to rdie
Poinky Malaprop

[10:25] car even

[10:26] START

[10:27] need a ride?
Decka Mah

[10:27] thanks
Ollie Kubrick

[10:28] the hand also flies
Poinky Malaprop

[10:29] are you selling all these?
Ollie Kubrick

[10:29] one thing I have also tried to do is see SL in very poetic terms

[10:29] so that flying in a hand creates very beautiful connotations

[10:29] hmmm not all but most

[10:30] my strategy is not to sell so much as it is to get sponsorship and give the cars away

[10:30] more of a net type approach
Thai Dye

[10:30] rosie
Ollie Kubrick

[10:30] I started working on a theme of film characters and fave cartoon characters

[10:31] lol

[10:31] beep
Resident A

[10:31] Publication permission denied.
Ollie Kubrick

[10:31] any questions plz ask

[10:31] YR3??

[10:31] which one?
Resident A

[10:31] Publication permission denied.
Ollie Kubrick

[10:31] oh I only know him as LIS robot

[10:31] lol

[10:32] yes it is
Resident A

[10:32] Publication permission denied.
Ollie Kubrick

[10:32] warning Dr Smith

[10:33] I want to use it for more purposes but it satisfies this one now
Poinky Malaprop

[10:33] nice cat
Ollie Kubrick

[10:33] I realy dont like the idea of copying RL so I basically only use photos as reference and try to make what I think looks right
Resident A

[10:34] Publication permission denied.
Ollie Kubrick

[10:34] regarding education

[10:34] I wanted to make somethng that I thought might be useful

[10:34] so I set myself the task of making an anatomically correct hand

[10:35] w the eye to making a whole skeleton at some point

[10:35] it took a while but I thoought that 3D models that were very accurate might be useful for med students

[10:36] this is also education bsed

[10:36] based\

[10:36] I wanted to create a standard that would allow for both student and teacher to have a space that didnt interfere w each other

[10:37] while allowing all perspective choices possibe

[10:37] the left is teacher space the right student

[10:37] both have access to 2D and text

[10:37] and they share 3D in the middle

[10:38] the bottom is a toolbar that would allow for a standard set of things that could be done

[10:38] further I wanted it to fit into the screen realestate ad tis does

[10:38] plus I made it so hat it is stackable and therefore acan also be used as storage

[10:39] an Ollibrary
Znetlady Isbell

[10:39] What tools are the 2D and 3D – the SL client set?
Ollie Kubrick

[10:39] I envision great columns of 3D objects that are perusabe
Thai Dye

[10:39] sorry, i’ve got to run

[10:39] bye bye
Ollie Kubrick

[10:39] cya TD

[10:39] the tools have yet to be scripted.

[10:40] I just wanted to create a model that would allow for interaction by design

[10:40] ZI is that an answer?
Znetlady Isbell

[10:40] Yes – what types of tools are you envisioning?
Ollie Kubrick

[10:40] wel for instance

[10:41] one thing that seems difficlt to d is to speak about a specific part of an object without creating software to do so

[10:41] here lets say I want to talk about a specific point on this globe
Poinky Malaprop

[10:43] Hi Garret – there’s still room in my car
Ollie Kubrick

[10:43] I then have a tool set up that allows me to specifically show that point
Garret Bakalava

[10:44] ty
Ollie Kubrick

[10:44] so in theory any model can be put there and refferred to wo writing any specific software for it
Znetlady Isbell

[10:44] Nice…
Ollie Kubrick

[10:45] it is one simple example but it solves a problem that is hard to anticipate

[10:45] the idea is that u want a tool set that works regardless of the model
Znetlady Isbell

[10:46] Seems simple, but pointing isn’t easy here. lol

[10:46] Very cool.
Poinky Malaprop

[10:46] so teacher and student would both be looking at the space
Ollie Kubrick

[10:46] exactly
Poinky Malaprop

[10:46] but not seeing each other?
Ollie Kubrick

[10:46] yes seeing the teacher isnt necessary unless desired

[10:46] u want to be able to focus all energy on what u are trying to learn

[10:47] and lets say u have a question then u type it in and wait till the teacher addresses it

[10:47] but that way u dont have to interuprt or forget
Ivy Innis

[10:47] and student student collaboration could occur also with this?
Ollie Kubrick

[10:47] and u stil will have the possibility to choose teacher perspective, student perspective or both

[10:48] yes I built it to be maxmally flexible

[10:48] that is the beauty of SL design
Poinky Malaprop

[10:48] interesting.. is this just a prototype, or is anybody using it?
Ollie Kubrick

[10:48] its a prototype

[10:48] I would need it scripted to make it very useful

[10:49] and the goals of education are more future goals for when I have built up some cas reserves

[10:49] Ok ready to move on?

[10:49] I will talk more about this to anyone who wants to later np

[10:50] this i built for the sim owner

[10:51] a stoe cloud w glass bottom pool
Poinky Malaprop

[10:51] lost them
Ollie Kubrick

[10:52] like the one Poinky is driving

[10:52] free for anyone to use wirthin the sim

[10:52] ok now we go below to the game area
Poinky Malaprop

[10:52] they seem to float upwards
Znetlady Isbell

[10:52] Ollie is the functionality tied to the sim?
Ollie Kubrick

[10:52] yes
Znetlady Isbell

[10:53] By design?

[10:53] Or by necessity?
Ollie Kubrick

[10:53] meaning?

[10:53] I dont want epople taking the green ollies away? no

[10:53] hmm the car has stopped

[10:53] weird now its back

[10:53] Here is the 3D Glass Maze

[10:54] I thought that this isnt possible in RL and I hadnt seen it elsewhere so I decided that it would be fun to make one here
Rider Writer

[10:54] I tried the maze last night…using mouselook nearly made me carsick…lol
Ollie Kubrick

[10:55] I made a BORG cube first but it was too dark and I liked the idea that u can watch someone else get lost in this one

[10:55] ya I have many issues w Lindens decision of movement but thats another story
Poinky Malaprop

[10:55] you should set your incoming TP point to be the middle of the maze
Ollie Kubrick

[10:55] no one else has ever solved it btw

[10:55] ya right

[10:55] thatll bring he crowds in
Poinky Malaprop

[10:56] it will keep them here
Ollie Kubrick

[10:56] yhis is my dev space

[10:56] I wanted to knwo what an avatar weighed so I built this device

[10:57] when the green line levels out u read ur weight along the side

[10:57] I weigh about 5 and a half
Poinky Malaprop

[10:57] ooh someone volunteer and try it
Ollie Kubrick

[10:57] the very strange thing about SL is that there is a physics here but it isnt really the same as in RL

[10:57] so I haqve set about trying to discover what the rules are

[10:58] Ill do it in a sec

[10:58] I have broken many physics rules and that has lead to some interetsting and impossible discoveries

[10:59] I havent put those on show but I will bring themout when the time is rright and I want to show what is impossible and yet possible

[10:59] ok plz stay here

[10:59] I will show u how the weighdevice works
You shout

[11:00] you’re out of chat range ollie
Decka Mah

[11:01] that’s clever
Znetlady Isbell

[11:01] Very clever!
Ollie Kubrick

[11:01] start

[11:01] so u see u need some patience

[11:02] but hat is bcuz it takes some time for the phyics engine to warm up hehe

[11:02] the text things u see above are also one of my pe projects

[11:02] pet

[11:03] I want more and better text so I envisioned a sort of blinking light car

[11:03] that could be programmed to cycle text in the way u see it everywhere else in RL

[11:03] and the point of it being a car is the its portable in the space

[11:04] I have mnmore ideas about this too but lets save that till later

[11:04] On to the Olliseum

[11:05] Here are the cars I designed to play OllieBall

[11:05] they are also able to be used by anyone and we have had matches of up to 5 people so far

[11:06] the idea is that it is basically Soccer/football w specially designed cars and in a specially designed stadium I term an Olliseum

[11:06] this actually took the most time to figure out bt it is now working

[11:06] I have tried to make most things self explanatory

[11:07] so here u get a game ball

[11:07] which disintegrates if not used

[11:07] so the ARc doesnt fill up w balls

[11:07] I made a version called SLoccer too

[11:07] it requires smaller balls

[11:08] and a different skill set

[11:08] I had some connection to Adidas and ergo the stripes

[11:08] I have plans to franchise this game and make it the first pansim game in SL

[11:08] ok lets go to the standes where we can get out

[11:10] So one more thing
Decka Mah

[11:10] great flying Poinky
Ollie Kubrick

[11:11] I get easly confused about the space in SL and I have tried to think of ways of reducing this
Poinky Malaprop

[11:11] sorry for crashing into everybody’s heads
Ollie Kubrick

[11:11] te teleporter is not only for teleporting around the sim but is also meant to give some kind of subway map like representation

[11:11] OK thats it more or less any questions?
Decka Mah

[11:12] *faints*
Ollie Kubrick

[11:12] lol

[11:12] sry DM lots to get thru in a short time hehe
Poinky Malaprop

[11:12] I like the teleporter alot – the comparison to subway maps is nice – abstract yet working mental model
Ollie Kubrick

[11:12] and remember taht this is all within the last 2 months
Decka Mah

[11:12] its just that it is 4 in the morning

[11:12] my brain hurts

[11:12] you are too clever fo this time of day
Ollie Kubrick

[11:13] plz coma back any time a when brain is not hurting
Decka Mah

[11:13] thisis a wonderful place
Ollie Kubrick

[11:13] lol 7 pm for me

[11:13] I work best at night

[11:13] thanx DM

[11:13] I have managed to get a lot of traffic too

[11:13] more than Sony and BMW who spent thousands
Poinky Malaprop

[11:14] you shoud ask Tateru Nino to include you in her traffic index
Ollie Kubrick

[11:14] sure plz anyone who wants to help the ARC is welcome
Poinky Malaprop

[11:15] so what’s your plan – what have you lined up for next steps?
Ivy Innis

[11:15] do you see the ed uses here as for everyone? specifically?
Ollie Kubrick

[11:15] well I have two offers on the table to build other sims

[11:15] and I will try to do both and keep the ARC running

[11:16] basically I need to make some RW money to get my other ideas off the ground but it sort of looks like that is going to happen

[11:16] so Im prety happy but everythig takes much too long for my taste, I was ready a month ago hehe
Poinky Malaprop

[11:17] have you seen the Toyota, Audi, Mercedes etc. builds?
Ollie Kubrick

[11:17] OH yes I have been to all my competitors

[11:17] but they seem to have missed the point

[11:18] they are all trying to ape reality ad then I ask why not just use reality?

[11:18] SL is mbest used when u do things u cant do elsewhere
Tip Tone

[11:18] stop
Ollie Kubrick

[11:18] ah TT arrives on a slider

[11:19] welcome TT
Tip Tone

[11:19] yes. my sl client crashed… had to find you on the ollie.
Ollie Kubrick

[11:19] so if no more questions then I suggest those who want lets play Ollie Bal
Poinky Malaprop

[11:19] cool – thanks Ollie – this was a great tour!
Rider Writer

[11:19] cool
Ollie Kubrick

[11:19] ur welcome
Ivy Innis

[11:20] ollie – very excellent
Ollie Kubrick

[11:20] so what u do is look across to the cars and R click
Ivy Innis

[11:20] can we contact you with questions?
Ollie Kubrick

[11:20] the instructions to fly them are there
Rider Writer

[11:20] IS this our final stop then? I may have to bail soon.
Ollie Kubrick

[11:20] in floating text

[11:20] yep last stop is the game
Poinky Malaprop

[11:20] If you can’t stay – thanks for coming
Resident A

[11:20] Publication permission denied.
Ollie Kubrick

[11:20] but u should try it out its my crowning achievement
Poinky Malaprop

[11:21] and if you’re not in the Kuurian Expediton group and want to get announcements about future meetings, let me know, and I can add you
Ollie Kubrick

[11:21] select and copy to watever u want

[11:21] ctrl c copies
Poinky Malaprop

[11:21] I will post the transcript too

[11:21] chat history window
Ollie Kubrick

[11:21] or poinky if u want
Rider Writer

[11:21] great , Poinky
Resident A

[11:21] Publication permission denied.
Poinky Malaprop

[11:21] ctrl a to select all, then ctrl-c to copy
Resident A

[11:21] Publication permission denied.
Poinky Malaprop

[11:21] though I may have missed some of the talk while trying to navigate into chat range
Ollie Kubrick

[11:21] so Ollie Ball?
Rider Writer

[11:21] lets PLAY
Ollie Kubrick

[11:21] k
Poinky Malaprop

[11:22] I’ll turn off transcript recording now

I’m on ur Wii, postin on ur blog

SignpostMarv Martin — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:09:17 +0000

Coding HTML with a Wiimote is a pain in the ass.

So I have a Wii now- had to go all the way through to Washington to get one, since a new store was opening there, and it was pretty much the only store in the north-east that had any Wiis in stock. I’ve made my Mii, my family have made theirs (except my mother made my sister’s Mii)

I’ve found that I kinda suck at Wii Tennis, and that my mother is a closet gaming addict :-p

Oh, and it’s my birthday tomorrow, hence why I’m spoiling myself with the Wii.

Toodles!

Linden Lab Offices (San Francisco & Atlanta)

SignpostMarv Martin — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:25:23 +0000

So I’m stumbling around the internet (Version 3.0.2 is still broke), when I come across a couple of photos of Linden Lab’s offices. One seems to be an old one (taken sometime during a grid outtage it seems), the other is of Linden Lab’s rather odd choice of location for their satellite office in Atlanta.

I’m not sure when the date of the first one is, but if you’re in Atlanta and want to say hi to some Lindens, a bit of googling turned up the address of their neighbours.

re:Jenny Diski on ‘Second Life’

SignpostMarv Martin — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 03:48:38 +0000

Jenny Diski

As far as I can understand it, Many Worlds Theory proposes that there are n zillion worlds like this one but marginally different, operating in parallel to the only world in which we think we exist.

We might each be living out all our possible lives, through all the variations of what we could possibly say or do, in an infinite number of worlds where everyone else is living out their variations, each at some weird angle to this one that my sorry, innumerate and spatially challenged brain is unable to comprehend. If this sounds like hell on earths to you then you probably haven’t signed up for Second Life.

It seems that Diski is yet another one of those closed-minded souls, or as she defines herself- indolent; too lazy to get out into the world and see the creativity that oldbies and us midbies have carved out in the world. Her first error I notice is that she states It’s called a game though there is no goal and no end point at which a clear winner emerges and takes the prize. Only the unknowing refer to it a game. Nobody at Linden Lab calls it a game, and no self-respecting oldbie or midbie calls it a game either for the precise reasons Diski states- there are no goals, there is no end point. At Lang.NET ’06, Babbage and Cory were there to say this in a more detailed form- (paraphrased) games have artificial conflict, games have conflict resolution; Second Life has neither of these. In Second Life, the only goals you have are those that you make yourself. It’s a virtual world- an alternative universe; a metaverse some say.

And it’s free up to a point, which is the entrance price of real life, though just like the here and now, if you want to own any part of the world in Second Life, you need money to buy it.

Unlike “real life”, you can go for your entire Second Life without spending a single penny or L$. This is something Diski seems to skim over; Everything in Second Life is created by it’s Residents- if you want something, try making it instead of buying it.

There are of course differences between RL and SL. You have to opt in to SL, which is a degree of volition you don’t get in reality. This does give it a certain negative charm: at least there is one possible life to which you can just say no.

Two things:

I’m not really familiar enough with Diski’s work or herself personally to understand why exactly that having to “opt in to SL” gives it a negative charm. I would’ve thought that this would be a positive thing- if it doesn’t seem your thing, don’t sign up for it.
You do have to opt-in to “reality”, once you’re aware of it at least. If that thought is a little too deep for anyone reading this blog, consider “RL” to have an opt-out policy; if you don’t accept it, you’re either nuts or you commit suicide. Since there is a fairly large field of medical science devoted to schizophrenia and depression, it seems that those that have accepted this world are fairly aware that there are those that do not or cannot accept this reality.

The problem turned out to be (as it must) that Second Life is organised and inhabited by beings from the real world who have by definition very little experience of being anywhere or any way else.

If you are looking for another way of being, you’ll be deeply disappointed. But you probably won’t be because you will understand that it couldn’t be otherwise. I was beguiled by the idea of a world apart from the real world which people keep telling me I have to come to terms with. It turns out that there is no second life on Second Life, only more of the same old first and only one, but cartoon-shaped. In Second Life each individual can take little bits of processing power, learn to manipulate them and make two-dimensional objects of any kind.

The problem turns out to be, that most of the people coming into Second Life are consumers. Consumers with little creativity. The older Residents, the artisans, the creators of this virtual world; There exist people out there in First Life and Second Life who have created entire universes inside their head via the written word, via film. With Second Life, these concepts can be brought into being, and shared with everyone- instead of being just a dream or delusion.

Of course Second Life is going to be filled with reminders of the reality we all come from- the world is based on the Cartesian system- the world is contiguous in all compass directions; the virtual world is three dimensional, and while there have been some experiments into hypercubes. Second Life exists in the third dimension, yet allows us to make crude interpretations of the four dimensions, possibly even higher. It is only the limitations of the minds of the Residents that limits the creativity and originality of our creations.

Linden Lab, the owners of Second Life, guarantee that everyone will retain the real world intellectual property rights to their virtual creations. So is the place stuffed full of extraordinary experimental poetry, song, fiction, art and architecture?

Linden Lab are the creators. They own the manifestation of Second Life in the real-world, and it is we who own it. We create the world, we shape it, we bend it to our will. Our World, Our Imagination.

Eventually, your avatar becomes a caricature of what you have always wanted to be, exactly what you are, or in some cases a large furry animal.

Second Life is almost entirely inhabited by impossibly long-legged, big-breasted, muscle-rippling blondes with lips so plumped full of what would be collagen in the real world that they make Ivana Trump’s mouth look mean.

Or a potted plant, cola machine, tin of spam, watermelony primitar, psychedelic faerie, demonically possessed albino, snowman, disembodied kitty head, star wars swoop bike…… I’ve got all kinds of things in my outfit folder that aren’t humanoid or furry. If you take a look through Shoshan Epslion’s photo set on Flickr, you’ll see genuine beauties do exist in our virtual world. Oh, and I think you’ll find that Diski isn’t SL’s single example of an older generation, I come across many older avatars (they’re just difficult to find, not non-existent).

After a while I gave up wandering the earth (flying and teleporting in fact) with my messages of cultural dismay, and started asking questions of the helpful employees of Linden Labs made virtual flesh and available to assist the bewildered novice.

I think we find Diski, as many others do, mistakenly assuming that the staff manning the Help Request channel are Linden Lab employees. We’re not.

I had hopes of there being some kind of politics in Second Life. Maybe there were cyber-revolutionaries intent on subverting the pointless mimicry of the real world or an underground working to overturn the autocratic rule of the Lindens.

It seems Diski hadn’t looked hard enough. For politics in Second Life, Neufreistadt is a prime example. For cyber-revolutionaries intent on subverting the “autocratic rule” of the Lindens (ignoring the fact that Linden Lab prefer us to govern ourselves), see the times when driving away newcomers to Second Life with a good ol’ Fuego! in protest to the prim-tax resulted in Linden Lab changing to a 127 prim per 512m² policy they have now.

‘Second’ doesn’t mean ‘alternative’. But not only does Second Life not offer an alternative existence, it positively encourages a replication of the regular world. It’s less a case of do it better than do it again: in fact, this seems to be its chief attraction.

Again, we come up with the continuing problem of the saturation of consumers coming into Second Life. The people expecting everything to be given to them on a silver platter; The people coming from WoW complaining about the lag- forgetting that WoW’s content is on their hard drive while SL’s is streamed on demand. If you come into Second Life and find that it lacks creativity and originality, this is because it is you who lack the ability to change the world. Yes, ‘Second’ doesn’t mean ‘alternative’, it means a ‘second chance‘. A second chance to reshape a world as you see fit- whether that world be first life, Second Life, your favourite novel or screenplay.

Another virtual world based in the Netherlands, Entropy Universe, has made the economic link between fantasy and reality even stronger by building degeneration into everything that exists on it. Not just clothes and cars wear out, but presumably bodies, too. And no silly sentimentality about a national health service to worry about

Entropia Universe doesn’t have the same economy that Second Life does. The resources are limited and the exchange rate is fixed. This, coupled with the fact that Residents of Second Life can make whatever they want, however they want and sell it for whatever price they see fit, is the reason why eBay allow Residents to sell their content on their auction sites, but you’ll have a hard time doing so with any other online world’s content. I personally found Entropia Universe to be as disapointing to me as Second Life was to Diski.

Jenny Diski

A very different kind of multiple world theory, where the same sad little world is made over and over again.

Linden Lab

Your World, Your Imagination

If you find Second Life to be an unoriginal replication of reality, then that is a flaw with your imagination, not Second Life itself.

SL Metaphors – Stairs vs llSitTarget() teleporters

SignpostMarv Martin — Sat, 24 Feb 2007 04:04:34 +0000

Overheard in the Office

Passenger #1: Don’t you wanna use the stairs for just one floor?

Passenger #2: Hmmm… I never know which one goes up and which one goes down.

I’ve moved…. well, sort of.

SignpostMarv Martin — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:08:36 +0000

If you bookmark this blog….

If you bookmark or subscribe to this blog, you’ll want to update thing to point to blog.signpostmarv.name, although WordPress.com has everything redirected nicely, so nothing should break, it’ll just speed things up a tad.

SL Metaphors – Webcomics

SignpostMarv Martin — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:09:39 +0000

The GridMonkey

Sanity Check – Techno Day by Brenda and Paul Caughell.

SL Metaphors – Orientation Island

SignpostMarv Martin — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:10:00 +0000

Wagner James Au (aka Hamlet Au, pka Hamlet Linden)

And me describing the larger promise of Second Life is like telling someone from Eastern Europe about the United States, and the variety of opportunities awaiting them there—but when they finally arrive, they end up trapped in Las Vegas International where the TSA insists on giving them a four hour body cavity search before they’re let through.

Taken from Au’s article on SL news coverage, Second Life Backlash: A Story Too Good To Check.

When did music start sucking ?

SignpostMarv Martin — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:30:26 +0000

I know this isn’t technically related to Second Life, but….

It was a couple of Resis who brought it to my attention- so blame this post being on this blog instead of this one on Aimee Weber and Nicole Linden for bringing it to my attention.

Some time last week, Aimee and I where passing each other videos of our fave 60s/70s/80s (did we get that far ahead ?) songs from youTube. Then a couple of days ago, Nicole passed out an URL to people when a user suspected that the streaming audio URLs weren’t getting passed from the server to the client correctly. It plays lots of 60s & 70s music, with a little less 80s music than Nicole led everyone to believe .

This rekindled my enjoyment of music from this era- I haven’t had much exposure to 60s music in over 2 years, so I pretty much forgot how much I liked it. Then I realised something. When did music start sucking ?

Theories

As near as I can tell, music started sucking in the 80s, more so in the mid-late 80s, when the fame:talent ratio started becoming a little bit unbalanced. The launch of MTV in 1981 might’ve had something to do with this. Is the demise of Popular Music due to the same entity that helped spread it ? The same unbalanced fame:talent ratio applies here, with the majority of pop music being performed by talentless pseudo-bishounen being piped through Antares Auto-Tune being comparable to the entertainment:music ratio tipping towards mindless entertainment of the masses.

It could be that music has always sucked, but with the barriers to entry reduced due to the digital era’s distribution and production methods being comparably easier to learn than the analogue era’s methods, the likelihood of coming across the “suck” increases with the amount of talentless individuals gaining access to the inter-web (note that the barriers to entry to perform music in Second Life are quite high, so the fame:talent ratio is in favour of talent)

It could be that music has always sucked, but the suck gets lost in the mists of time, explaining why pretty much every brilliantly compiled 60′s 4 disc compilation album is identical, but the “variety” of music released in the “Now That’s What I Call Music!” series is pushing into the low-hundreds of CDs. Yes I’m aware those two statistics aren’t directly related, but it illustrates my opinion that the market penetration of contemporary “suck” is far greater than oldie “suck”, because you can’t make money from poor-quality oldie music.

Smiddy Smails and Gregor Kondo from Text100 on ‘who are the new publics of Second Life?’

SignpostMarv Martin — Sat, 23 Dec 2006 10:59:23 +0000

Poinky Malaprop

[13:05] Welcome all to this Kuurian Expedition presentation
Resident A

[13:06] Publication permission denied.
Poinky Malaprop

[13:06] We’re fortunate to have the FIRST ad agency in SL with us today

[13:06] (kidding)
Second Life

[13:06] Nobody Fugazi looks around for Prok.
Poinky Malaprop

[13:06] but Text100 is definitely on the forefront

[13:06] in trying to bring copropartions

[13:07] and corporations too

[13:07] into SL

[13:07] that may not be otherwise considering it

[13:07] I shoudl mention that my RL company is a customer of Text100
Vincent Doctorow

[13:07] full disclosure ;D
Poinky Malaprop

[13:07] but unfortunately I was not bribed to invite them here
Smiddy Smails

[13:07] next time!
Vincent Doctorow

[13:08] he was paid to say that ;D
Smiddy Smails

[13:08]
Poinky Malaprop

[13:08] so, without further ado, I’ll hand it over to Smiddy to lead us in a discussion of the new publics of SL

[13:08] take it away!

Spizaex Stepanov

[13:08] Ute.. You here??
Second Life

[13:08] You cannot currently invite anyone to your location because the region is full. Try again later.
Frank Koolhaas

[13:09] yes, she is
Gregor Kondo

[13:09] As soon as Poinky handed over, Smiddy’s system crashed!

[13:09] Give him a second, please
Poinky Malaprop

[13:09] I’d like to apologize for my burnt appearance by the way.

[13:09] apparently "bake texture" did not mean what I thought it did
Ton Zeami

[13:10] hehehehe
Yummi Burrito

[13:10] lol
Vincent Doctorow

[13:10] lmfao
Chrissy Ambrose

[13:10] lol
Vincent Doctorow

[13:10] i thought that was a stylistic fashion decision
Frank Koolhaas

[13:10] what happened, poinky?
Second Life

[13:10] Farley Scarborough smiles

[13:10] You cannot currently invite anyone to your location because the region is full. Try again later.
Gregor Kondo

[13:10] Smiddy is logging back in now.
Resident B

[13:10] Publication permission denied.
Resident A

[13:10] Publication permission denied.
Smiddy Smails

[13:10] sorry aobut that!
Ton Zeami

[13:11] no prob smiddy
Poinky Malaprop

[13:11] maybe if peopl can turn off any scripts, attachements to help with lag, that would help us with not carshing
Smiddy Smails

[13:11] alright, let’s try this again

[13:11] Thank you for joining us and welcome to Text 100 Island. If you haven’t had a chance to look around yet, I hope you’ll do so later.

[13:11] We really appreciate the opportunity from The Kuurian Expedition to present today.
Vincent Doctorow

[13:11] /clap
Smiddy Smails

[13:11] Before we begin, I want to make sure everyone knows that you will be able to particpiate in the Linden Town Hall with Cory Linden here at 2:30 SLT via a repeater.
Nite Zelmanov

[13:11] Umm, this sim is nowhere NEAR it’s script limit. It’s performing awesom
Smiddy Smails

[13:12] The town hall is text only, no audio. So feel free to stick around following the presentation for that event as well.

[13:12] s Poinky indicated, the purpose of today’s presentation, which hopefully will be very interactive, is to discuss the question: Who are the new publics of Second Life?

[13:12] Now in order to keep the discussion moving, I ask that you use IM to communicate with each other during the presentation.

[13:12] Afterwards, we will open it up for questions. You can IM them to be at any time and I will moderate the Q&A.

[13:12] To help frame the discussion,

[13:12] I’d like to introduce Gregor Kondo.

[13:12] Gregor, in RL, is Georg Kolb, Executive Vice President for Text 100.

[13:12] He is in charge of looking at new services for our company,

[13:12] and so he has a natural interest in peer-to-peer media platforms and by extension, SL.

[13:12] So with that, I turn the presentation over to Gregor…
Chrissy Ambrose

[13:13] lol
Gregor Kondo

[13:13] Welcome everyone!

[13:14] Can you hear me?
Vincent Doctorow

[13:14] =D
Chrissy Ambrose

[13:14] Yes
Second Life

[13:14] Farley Scarborough nods
Gregor Kondo

[13:14] Please apologize that I?m sitting here, I simply didn?t want to stand throughout the whole session ?

[13:14] As you might know, the Kuurian expedition was sent ?to the wild and foreign lands of cyberia? in the spirit of scientific expeditions of the 15th to 19th centuries

[13:14] Why would that include a talk about New Publics?

[13:15] Is there such a thing as New Publics at all?

[13:15] To answer those questions we need to take a look at the bigger picture

[13:15] There are fundamental waves of change going through society, business and technology.

[13:15] We all experience them somehow. I can?t go into detail, but here are a couple of catchwords:

[13:16] In society, we are seeing much more flexibility, but also more risk for the individual. We are also seeing demographic change, gaps of wealth and values, migrations, etc.

[13:16] In business we have to deal with globalization, super-fragmented markets, commoditization and price wars, lost loyalty with customers and employees, increased social responsibility, etc.

[13:16] And in technology, we are seeing the rise of distributed computing, open systems, participatory technologies (I don?t like ?web 2.0?), biotech, clean tech and much more.

[13:16] All these developments are closely related and would deserve a large discussion, of course.

[13:16] All these developments are closely related and would deserve a large discussion, of course.

[13:17] But for today, let?s just look at how these changes play out for our topic: the publics.

[13:17] But for today, let?s just look at how these changes play out for our topic: the publics.

[13:17] Let?s start from the society angle:

[13:17] Let?s start from the society angle:

[13:17] The relation between the public and the private is being redefined. We are living more individualized lifes that are not as regulated by public institutions as they used to be for our parents and grand parents.

[13:17] The relation between the public and the private is being redefined. We are living more individualized lifes that are not as regulated by public institutions as they used to be for our parents and grand parents.

[13:17] As a result, people are building trust in new ways. They have less trust in established public institution like governments or brands, but even in personal advisors like doctors or lawyers.

[13:17] As a result, people are building trust in new ways. They have less trust in established public institution like governments or brands, but even in personal advisors like doctors or lawyers.

[13:18] Instead they increasingly build trust with people who share an interest with them: their peers.

[13:18] In other words, we have more confidence in each other than in institutions.

[13:18] For example, while our grand parents would have blindly followed the advice of their doctor, we are looking for someone else who suffers from the same disease before we undergo that surgery.

[13:18] In addition to this social dynamic, we are empowered by new internet technologies to find our peers. We can use search engines to find someone else with that same rare disease who lives on the other side of the planet.

[13:19] And we can create or join a community of patients with that disease on blogs or social networks.

[13:19] Our more individualized life style and the technologies to push it through also results into increasingly fragmented markets.

[13:19] Just consider this: while a grocery store in the fifties might have carried 3,500 items, today?s supermarkets will carry ten times this number.

[13:19] Now, how do virtual worlds like SL relate to this?

[13:19] We believe they are just a more radical technology for people to create an individual life and connect with their peers

[13:20] They are an interesting version of the New Publics that are released from old institutions.

[13:20] But in principle they are part of the same dynamic you can observe in any social network today, be it online or offline: people are inventing their life in communities of peers.

[13:20] So, the New Publics are not a resort of virtual worlds, they are a dynamic of our time.

[13:20] Against this background, we can also challenge the old distinction between the public and the private.

[13:21] Is your SL identity private?

[13:21] It is in the sense that you might hide from your RL communities that you are Super Girl in SL.

[13:21] But then again you also live a public life as Super Girl within the virtual world, and the relationships there are very real.

[13:21] From that perspective, it is rather your RL identity that is private, or even virtual!

[13:22] Let?s add the corporate level to the discussion.

[13:22] Today, we have corporations like IBM that do have a RL and a SL presence.
Second Life

[13:22] You cannot currently invite anyone to your location because the region is full. Try again later.
Gregor Kondo

[13:22] I think as a first step it is important to realize that the New Publics are everywhere in this system.

[13:22] There are communities of interest inside Second Life, and there are communities of interest emerging inside corporations.

[13:22] In the case of the RL corporation IBM, there are thousands of blogs on their internal blogging platform where people can find their peers they share an interest with.

[13:23] Of course, they can do the same in SL, but in a more creative, experimental way.

[13:23] For example, if there were an IBM project on monkeys, the IBMers could meet in SL in the jungle.

[13:25] Now, theoretically I don’t see any reason why all these different communities couldn’t connect.

[13:25] If and only IF there is an interest they share!

[13:26] IF there would be indeed an interest they share, the COULD connect.

[13:26] That said, as of yet, they rarely do,

[13:26] because they are too much focused on their own agendas

[13:26] rather than mutual benefits.

[13:26] On the business side,

[13:27] many are runniung into SL like they ran for internet domains ten years ago.

[13:27] Often without being clear on their own objectives

[13:27] and even less clear why the SL community would bother.

[13:28] But also on the SL side, there are "immersionists"

[13:28] who live and work in SL

[13:28] and seem to feel threatened by the corporate immigrants

[13:28] rather than considering how they could enrich the virtual world.

[13:29] But there is even another layer we have to add:

[13:29] The media. Both in RL and SL

[13:30] The New Publics don’t need them to connect.

[13:30] That was different for hundreds of years.

[13:31] But they still have a huge role to play:

[13:31] as clarifiers and amplifiers.

[13:31] Again, that’s true in theory, not always in practice.

[13:31] But I do believe that Public Relations can help to build all those connections between the New Publics.

[13:32] I know we can in RL.

[13:32] I"m confident we will learn to do it in SL!

[13:32] Thank you!
Smiddy Smails

[13:32] Thank you, Georg.
Nite Zelmanov

[13:32] Whew
Second Life

[13:32] Soluna Sassoon claps
Smiddy Smails

[13:32] So now we’re going to take some questions from the audience.

[13:33] Please feel free to submit them to me via IM and I will repeat them to the group.

[13:33] Our first question is from Intellagirl Tully: Can you define "public"? a blog is public and yet if we don’t share our identity, it’s also very private. how are we defining public in this sense?
Gregor Kondo

[13:33] I think the publics are all about the relationships between individuals.

[13:34] Regardless of the fact whether their identity is unveiled.
Smiddy Smails

[13:34] Denials Frazer asks: Are you suggesting that media corporations should serve as an intermediary, a nexus, between dispersed individuals?
Intellagirl Tully

[13:34] thanks
Gregor Kondo

[13:34] Today, individuals can connect without the media.

[13:35] They are empowered to have their own voice.

[13:35] Still, the media can help with the connection.

[13:35] As clarifiers and amplifiers.

[13:35] Make sense?
Smiddy Smails

[13:35] Let’s go ahead and open this discussion up
Denials Frazer

[13:35] it does, but i would like an example
Gregor Kondo

[13:36] Okay, so my son is a penguin enthusiast.
Farley Scarborough

[13:36] /nods
Intellagirl Tully

[13:36] doesn’t the media sometimes serve to cloud things, to present only one side, misrepresent instead of connect?
Gregor Kondo

[13:36] He can find his community using a search engine.

[13:36] And they can connect withot traditional media.

[13:37] On all things penguin, like the last movie

[13:37] the next zoo

[13:37] the best travel agency
Vincent Doctorow

[13:37] wasn’t it the media that made people aware of the movie, however?

[13:37] wasn’t it the media that made people who went and saw happy feet that the movie was out in the first place?
Gregor Kondo

[13:37] But he will still enjoy an article in a magazine that provides him some context
Vincent Doctorow

[13:37] more than other peopel saying, "look, here’s a cool movie about penguins coming out"
Frank Koolhaas

[13:37] here it will become more and more important to manage public relations. so, the elder ppl in SL have some advantages, because they know better this environment. what will think the ppl with a big experience in RL and no experience in SL. They will accept that?
Gregor Kondo

[13:37] like the ecosystem of penguins and what they need for their life
Denials Frazer

[13:38] so the media can provide a context
Smiddy Smails

[13:38] Rik Riel: This seems like an optimistic spin on what is essentially the loss of any true "agora" or gathering point for citizens not controlled by companies. How does our democracy evolve to respond to this? I.e. does this fracturization of society in smaller publics mean we are less united as a people?
Vincent Doctorow

[13:38] Yeah good question.
Nobody Fugazi

[13:38] This sounds very similar to Levy’s ‘molecular media’.
Gregor Kondo

[13:38] I’m surprised you would see it like that.

[13:39] I believe that companies have much less control on these gatherings today.

[13:39] Think of a drug company…

[13:39] and the community of patients discussing nasty side effects
Decka Mah

[13:39] Except that they actually own the place we a re meeting in…and control the rules around it
Vincent Doctorow

[13:39] I can see where Rik is coming from. The internet that has united penguin enthusiasts and amplified their interest in penguins can just as easily unite terrorists and amplify their interest in extermism.
Gregor Kondo

[13:40] How would they have been able to do something like that in the past when they are dispersed across the globe?
Vincent Doctorow

[13:40] It could bring a core or mainstream group of people closer together but just as easily pull the fringers father apart.
Smiddy Smails

[13:40] Kim Chihuly asks that you say a few words about what kind of things PR firms will do in SL?
Gregor Kondo

[13:40] Well, we are still exploring what we can do, but
Nobody Fugazi

[13:40] Gregor: ‘much less’ doesn’t mean that companies have little enough authority to please some people.
Gregor Kondo

[13:41] we will try to help building relationships between the New Publics that will be a win-win for all.
Nobody Fugazi

[13:41] Using pharmaceuticals as an example, why do I need to get spammed with pill information, isn’t that what my doctor is for?
Gregor Kondo

[13:42] You don’t need to get spammed.
Second Life

[13:42] Decka Mah puts her hand on her heart and hears violins as the “win-win” tune plays in her head …NOT
Nobody Fugazi

[13:42] My television tells me about drugs I can’t even get in the country I live in. That’s spam.
Gregor Kondo

[13:42] I think the filters for users will get always better. Think RSS in a big way.
Frank Koolhaas

[13:42] I see that there are still some skeptics around. when I talk about SL, some still laugh. when will it change?
Smiddy Smails

[13:42] Weiss Plessis: Where do brands and branding enter into the idea of publics? Personal branding and corporate branding, both as functions of identity?
Gregor Kondo

[13:42] On the branding q.

[13:43] I think we are seeing a shift in brand development.
Spizaex Stepanov

[13:43] I think that is the point.. You are not interested in pills, because you are sastisfied with this. The media have to discover what are your new interests, or create one for you, that you could buy..
Gregor Kondo

[13:43] From the corporations to their communities.

[13:43] Think of the Treonauts blog.

[13:43] It was created by Treo users.

[13:44] They have so much traction that Palm is forced to listen.
Smiddy Smails

[13:44] dga Kyomoon: It’s precisely because the media cannot be counted upon to clarify but only amplify that we rely more on each other thant the institutions you mentioned in the beginning. Why should we look to the media now?
Vincent Doctorow

[13:44] This is the empowerment you were talking about
Gregor Kondo

[13:44] On the role of the media.
Weiss Plessis

[13:44] thx Gregor, makes sense.
Gregor Kondo

[13:45] I think of the way I’m still reading some papers.

[13:45] While I’m getting all the breaking news online,

[13:45] I still appreciate the view of a good journo who can provide me with the bigger picture.
Smiddy Smails

[13:46] Alicia Encinal: Do you think Linden’ policy about still calling SL "a game" helps PR firms in bringing here corporate clients?
Kim Chihuly

[13:46] and people in your community of interest can help you find those good journalists
Gregor Kondo

[13:46] Do the Lindens still call it a game?
Alicia Encinal

[13:46] yeah, just in the main page
Gregor Kondo

[13:46] If so, they shouldn’t.
Vincent Doctorow

[13:46] I thought the lindens were very much against the idea of SL as a game.
Gregor Kondo

[13:46] First, because I don’t think it’s true.
Vincent Doctorow

[13:47] The Lindends call Second Life an online environment.
Gregor Kondo

[13:47] Second, they will attract a larger audience, if they don’t.
Smiddy Smails

[13:47] Vorren Voltaire: I’m curious as to how these ‘corporate immigrants’ will be enriching Second Life (or similar environments) aside for comsumer intrests? What are the actual benifits for the community?
Alicia Encinal

[13:47] but they still call it a game in scondlife.com
Vincent Doctorow

[13:47] where?
Gregor Kondo

[13:47] What can the corporate immigrants do?

[13:48] I don’t think there is a generic answer to this.

[13:48] I think what needs to be done is an agenda mapping exercise for each.
Nite Zelmanov

[13:48] They have yet to find their place it seems
Gregor Kondo

[13:48] What is on the agenda of the business, what is on the agenda of the community they want to address?

[13:48] Where is the overlap? Take it from there.
Intellagirl Tully

[13:49] Corporate immigrants seem to legitimize SL to the RL public, though
Nite Zelmanov

[13:49] yes

[13:50] If Company X is spending Y tousands of $US to move into SL, there must be some good reason
Vincent Doctorow

[13:50] But what effect does that legitimization have? It looks like statistically a ton of people just come into Second Life and then never come back.
Nite Zelmanov

[13:50] or so the thinking goes
Vincent Doctorow

[13:50] People who are just amuzed that you can get a Nissan in Second Life, play with that, and then leave again.
Decka Mah

[13:50] corporations have yet to leanr how to do business INSIDE a game….there are LOTS of peopel using Second Life adn theit "third place" …call it a game if you wish…a liesure space is porobably a better description.
Gregor Kondo

[13:50] I would see SL as a multitude of New Publics.
Alicia Encinal

[13:50] i never said i call it a game
Nite Zelmanov

[13:50] From an SL centric point of view, I see them as helping to keep LL funded through the hard times. Big money is invested, and they’ll want the grid to continue
Smiddy Smails

[13:51] is it possible to see SL as an example of a new public, and the corporate presences as efforts to regain control?
Vincent Doctorow

[13:51] Yeah, Nite, I still think money has a lot to do with all these new networks.
Gregor Kondo

[13:51] There are many communities of interests here who create their worlds.

[13:51] They are the New Publics in SL.
Nite Zelmanov

[13:51] oh yeah. But that’s not necesarrily a bad thing. Without money, the internet would never have grown to the type of thing that can even support SL
Vincent Doctorow

[13:51] I don’t think the corporations see us as "new publics," they see as another market.
Gregor Kondo

[13:51] I don’t see how companies could control them.
Resident Griefer

[13:51] Comments removed from transcript.
Vincent Doctorow

[13:52] griefer attack =\
Nite Zelmanov

[13:52] lol
Vincent Doctorow

[13:52] I can’t mute it =\
Intellagirl Tully

[13:52] how lame
Dawn Dooley

[13:52] how lame
Chrissy Ambrose

[13:52]
Nite Zelmanov

[13:53] Trying to explain to a business partner why they should attempt to endure this sort of event is always fun
Vincent Doctorow

[13:53] ah there we go "mute object by name"
Gregor Kondo

[13:53] No control, you see?
Vincent Doctorow

[13:53] by the way it looks like someone named 2010 Ah is doing this

[13:54] Well this is interesting.
Spizaex Stepanov

[13:54] Even in SL we have terrorist atacks
Second Life

[13:54] Nite Zelmanov is NOT terrified
Vincent Doctorow

[13:54] Yeah, I’m just annoyed.
Nite Zelmanov

[13:54] you can keep your terrorist this and terrorist that at home, thanks
JimmyJet Fossett

[13:54] Heh–Rage of the Machines!!
Vincent Doctorow

[13:55] coin a new term, "Annoyancists"
Chrissy Ambrose

[13:55] Hate this
Denials Frazer

[13:55] annoyed is definitely a better word for it
Chrissy Ambrose

[13:55] infantile
Vincent Doctorow

[13:55] Can the person who owns the land we’re on not turn of external scripting?
Catherine Omega

[13:55] I don’t suppose anyone has access to the sim access and object list?
Intellagirl Tully

[13:55] Pissed off is more accurate
Vincent Doctorow

[13:55] That should stop this iss.
dga Kyomoon

[13:55] interesting, I’d like to know how they do it
Nite Zelmanov

[13:55] is actally better than my home sim sometimes performs when NOT under attack!
Resident C

[13:55] Publication permission denied.
Farley Scarborough

[13:55] If anyone gets a fix on who is doing this, we must all report
Gregor Kondo

[13:55] We are trying to get help.
Catherine Omega

[13:55] It’s 2010 Ah.
Vincent Doctorow

[13:56] is there another auditorium we could move to?
Resident C

[13:56] Publication permission denied.
Frank Koolhaas

[13:56] seems it is going to finish
Vincent Doctorow

[13:56] I guess we’re not terrified per se but that is a terrifying picture of thomas the tank engine
dga Kyomoon

[13:56] lol
Smiddy Smails

[13:56] sorry about that, everyone
Frank Koolhaas

[13:56] lol
Catherine Omega

[13:56] I don’t want to sound like a smartass here, but you really, really need to have someone with management of a sim at these events…
Smiddy Smails

[13:56] thank you for your help!
DJ Waki

[13:57] lol
Nite Zelmanov

[13:57] Yeah, CNET has the same problem
Rik Riel

[13:57] nice finale!
Nite Zelmanov

[13:57] corporate noobs
Vorren Voltaire

[13:57] this is a good example of the gap between corporates and the immersionists. This sort of thing could be handled easily by more experianced residents with access to sim managment tools

[13:57] the corporations lack SL street cred
LadyKay Gable

[13:57] pOINKY Y
Gregor Kondo

[13:57] We booked that to show that there is no control
Denials Frazer

[13:57] true Vorren
LadyKay Gable

[13:57] WHERE ARE THEY
Nite Zelmanov

[13:57] Gregor was paid to say that!
Gregor Kondo

[13:57] lol
Smiddy Smails

[13:57] alright, I think that’s allwe have time for

[13:57] a fitting conclusion
Resident C

[13:57] Publication permission denied.
Smiddy Smails

[13:58] Again, many thanks to the Kuurian Expedition for inviting us to participate. We encourage anyone who’s interested to stick around for the Linden Town Hall, which will begin at 2:30 PT. Bye!

[13:58] we can keep the discussion going informally
Weiss Plessis

[13:58] thanks Smiddy, thanks Gregor!
Frank Koolhaas

[13:58] gregor, which is the profile of the person who represent the new public of SL?
DJ Waki

[13:58] thks gregor
Poinky Malaprop

[13:58] thanks smiddy and gregor
LadyKay Gable

[13:58] NP
Nite Zelmanov

[13:58] Thanks guys, I really like these sorts of events, even though they’re usually cut short by griefers if held by corporate noobs
Gregor Kondo

[13:58] Thanks for coming guys, much appreciated!

[13:58] Thanks for coming guys, much appreciated!
DJ Waki

[13:59] thks alicia
Denials Frazer

[13:59] thanks for the event
Alicia Encinal

[13:59] ty DJ
Vorren Voltaire

[13:59] it was informative
Chrissy Ambrose

[13:59] Ty and sorry It had to end like this
Poinky Malaprop

[13:59] thanks all for coming

[13:59] and sorry for being a corpoaret noob
Frank Koolhaas

[13:59] hey guys, a journalist asks me if anyone has photos of the attack
Poinky Malaprop

[13:59] I have some edumacating to do
Chrissy Ambrose

[13:59] lol
Poinky Malaprop

[14:00] this wa the last K.E. meeting for 2006

[14:00] so hope to see you all in 2007
Intellagirl Tully

[14:00] WOOOHOOO! For KE!!

[14:00]